[Brighton] Crystal Palace Fan Labour Brighton Pavilion MP Candidate

[Herr Tubthumper]

I agree with you but although I can’t prove it , my instincts are the majority are attention seekers . The people with serious issues are very much the minority . Just my hunch - others may not agree .

What instincts are these? How did you come to this belief?

 

[Gwylan]

Because the Brighton & Hove Labour party have been in a permanent hissy fit since they lost the council and have done everything they can to undermine the Greens rather than work with them for the benefit of the city. A prime example of seeking power without principle and I hope we can stay Green at the next election. Even if I lived in Hove or Kemptown I‘d still vote Green.

That's right. I'd say that most of the people in the Labour Party in Brighton are more anti-Green than anti-Tory. I don't know if the Greens hate Labour in the same way but certainly on the Labour side, the hatred is visceral .

 

[beorhthelm]

No alone is gender labelling a social construct - it is a social construct of capitalism. Pre-industrial societies were largely absent of any definitions of gender, as they were of homophobia and the modern notion of a nuclear family. The monarchy of Little Vic and the ruling elites she represented, have a lot to answer for.

of course, it's all capitalism. ignoring most societies have deep rooted gender role bias, langauges have heavy gendered grammar.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

What makes you think using the word ‘he’ could get you prosecuted?

these days, if you say you’re English….

 

[ewe2]

Support Palace!
Not good…..!!!

 

[Papa Lazarou]

That's right. I'd say that most of the people in the Labour Party in Brighton are more anti-Green than anti-Tory. I don't know if the Greens hate Labour in the same way but certainly on the Labour side, the hatred is visceral .

And it's shit like this that allows the Tories to win parliamentary majorities.

 

[Triggaaar]

I agree with you but although I can’t prove it , my instincts are the majority are attention seekers

If you're correct, that's fine - just let them be and don't give them attention. And I imagine the genuine people will be fine with that too.

 

[Live by the sea]

What instincts are these? How did you come to this belief?

Gut instinct. There’s been a huge amount of publicity in the last 4-5 years , social media etc and a huge rise in cases over the same period of time . Coincidence ? I’m not so sure .

 

[cunning fergus]

I’m not sure I agree with that.

I saw a good piece from Baron Winston (there are many) on trans issues. There is interesting in utero research that suggests the hormones that assign biological sex and perhaps influence gender can be suppressed in the brain whilst being plentiful in the groin. In layman’s terms that means male genitalia and female brain or female genitalia and male brain (and everything in between) depending on what hormones switch on and where.

Our gender is surely not a blank piece of paper that we can colour in a gender of our choice?

I think that cisgender people (women in particular) have to be protected but Trans women should have equal rights in everything. But they are still trans women, not women.

Eddie has stated on a number of occasions that he is not too bothered what people call him, but his preference is ‘she’ and ‘Suzy’. He does not want to be part of the Tory culture war, he wants to help people. However, supporting Palace is not acceptable. Until he is paraded naked around the Amex prior to the Palace game, publicly renouncing them and swearing allegiance to us, kneeling before Tony Bloom and then symbolically deificating on an image of Zaha in the centre circle, I’m out.

If he can change from ‘man’ to ‘trans women’ he can bloody well change from Palace to Brighton.

He hasn’t “changed” from a man to a “trans woman” he’s been quite clear that his interpretation of transgender is that it’s an “umbrella term”. Eddie’s got no intention of lopping off his meat and two veg he simply wears women’s clothes and asks people to call him Suzy.

If that is all it takes for men to get access to women’s spaces (like toilets) it’s little wonder that there is significant opposition amongst women to men rocking up in their changing rooms etc.

The supporters of trans genders should get their position straight about when they want men to have unfettered access women’s changing rooms etc. Is it when they still have their cock and balls, or is it when they are off. Even then, it should not be up to the men, it should be up to the genuine tits and fanny constituency to decide.

As for Eddie changing from Palace to BHA, deceitful grifting shits will say anything to get political office……….he’s no better than Farridge.

 

[Machiavelli]

There’s a huge amount of nonsense on this thread, so thanks for a sensible post. Progressive parties really should be thinking about who stands and, indeed, if they stand in certain seats, so as to maximise the Tory losses next time round.

Beyond that, supporting a particular football team is a silly reason to vote a particular way. I wouldn’t vote for Boris or Truss with a gun to my head even if they led the singing in the North Stand. Equally I couldn’t give a shiny shite if Lewis Dunk votes Tory, just so long as he plays well for us. They’re two entirely separate things.

Oh, and there I was getting right behind Timmy and @Steve Foster or whoever his (their?) most recent alias is on the basis of their party political allegiances.

 

[Machiavelli]

Yes, I am a doctor

On the basis of your previous post, you sound like you are a doctor and, despite what another doctor has said recently on this thread, gender is quite clearly a human construct.

 

[Goldstone Guy]

Advanced biology? Is that a fancy name for a viewpoint on biology that suits your opinion?

I haven't read the whole thread so apologies if I'm repeating others but Astrosloth is spot on.

Intersex is a term which roughly describes sexual/gender ambiguity. Gender can be defined in four ways biologically (I think) - I won't bore you with the details but it can be done at a genetic level (looking for the presence of a Y chromosome), based on histology of gonads (ovaries or testicles), ductal sex (details not important), or genital sex (what the external genitalia look like). Sexual ambiguity occurs when these four methods don't agree in one individual. Some babies can be born with ambiguous genitalia where it's hard to tell if the baby is male or female from the appearance of the genitals. I agree there is another social perspective to gender - the above is purely biological but could explain why some people may appear to be of one gender and feel themselves to be the other.

A google search says that 1.7% of the global population are intersex so it's hardly a rare thing. 1.1 million in the UK according to a google search.

Not got much to do with Eddie Izzard as a labour candidate though.

 

[Surf's Up]

In a GE I'd vote for the proverbial pig's bladder on a stick if it wore a red rosette, so I really don't care who the candidate is. And certainly I wouldn't be swayed by their football team.

Izzard does say that it's important to elect a Labour MP in Brighton Pavilion so the city can have a voice in government. Take note all those of you tempted to vote for Lucas's successor.

Blind one party only forever voter = idiot.

 

[kentgully]

of course, it's all capitalism. ignoring most societies have deep rooted gender role bias, langauges have heavy gendered grammar.

Kin chill out...

 

[chip]

On the basis of your previous post, you sound like you are a doctor and, despite what another doctor has said recently on this thread, gender is quite clearly a human construct.

Yes, I'd agree with that. At some level, all things are human constructs and these change with time. My point is more that we are free to make our own constructs and it's quite hard to make others accept them. If there are no absolute truths (scientific facts) then it is perfectly feasible to have many equally valid but contrary views, it's what we see around the world. If there are absolute truths, where have they come from and why won't we all agree on what they are?

But back to Eddie, the real question is whether they will be a good MP for the constituency. Best to judge them on how they propose to better the lives of all their consituents.

 

[Machiavelli]

Yes, I'd agree with that. At some level, all things are human constructs and these change with time. My point is more that we are free to make our own constructs and it's quite hard to make others accept them. If there are no absolute truths (scientific facts) then it is perfectly feasible to have many equally valid but contrary views, it's what we see around the world. If there are absolute truths, where have they come from and why won't we all agree on what they are?

But back to Eddie, the real question is whether they will be a good MP for the constituency. Best to judge them on how they propose to better the lives of all their consituents.

As another doctor on this thread, I'd nuance this somewhat: all things are things, but the words we assign to them are human constructs, which indeed do change with time.

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

of course, it's all capitalism. ignoring most societies have deep rooted gender role bias, langauges have heavy gendered grammar.

Gender roles are the result of and are constructed by class-based societies. There are countless examples in history of how pre-capitalist societies approached gender roles.

Example - the Navajo nation among the native American tribes recognised four specific genders and acknowledged that it wasn't a definitive list. Gender roles within the tribal lands were not defined and each person was free to engage in whatever role they felt was appropriate for them. Homosexuality was revered among the native Americans and gay people were often regarded as the spiritual leaders of the tribe. When children became orphans they were regularly place with gay couples to be reared because it was felt that they would receive the best upbringing there (all within the context of the wider communal based tribal lifestyle carried out by most native Americans in the pre-capitalist era).

Class based society (beginning in the neolithic) forced gender roles on individuals - it was necessary to protect private ownership of property - but it progressed in different ways and on a different timeframe in different locations (example - up until the sixteenth century individual land ownership didn't exist in Ireland, land was owned by the 'tuath' - the clan - Henry VIII began the process of imposing individual private property ownership in Ireland and it took many years to eliminate communal ownership of property here).

Capitalism forced a specific structure on society - one based on the factory production system and the private ownership of wealth. It needed a workforce - so the economy forced migration from rural to urban centres, disrupting the communal cooperation that existed within the poorer layers of society in feudal times - it established individually based housing, be that individual rooms in slum tenements or two-up/two-down terracing in urban cities, rather than the communal nature of housing in earlier forms of society - and it dismantled the extended family, establishing individual family units, with the man working 12/14 hour days 6/7 days a week in a factory, with the woman meeting the man's 'needs' and raising the children, and then the woman introduced as cheaper labour when the eldest child was old enough for child minding. The nuclear family became the single most important societal unit in capitalist society as it broke the bonds of communal cooperation and it could act as a restrictive force on the development of collective action by workers through trade unions.

By imposing the nuclear family on society (started in Victorian times - but coming into its key role in the inter-war period) anything that potentially posed a threat had to be eliminated - and included in that was precise gender defined roles and the elimination of any gender identity that threated these roles - the criminalisation of homosexuality - and the dominance of the man over the woman (and the promotion of misogyny) to protect the hereditary nature of individual ownership of property. The intersectional nature of these oppressions are, at their root, based on the class nature of society and the class divisions that exist within society. As capitalism enters the Age of Disorder, the ruling elites are having increasing difficulty maintaining the structures upon which their economic foundations are based - that is part of the reason why there is such a far-right backlash that is currently manifested as transphobia, homophobia, misogyny etc.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Gut instinct. There’s been a huge amount of publicity in the last 4-5 years , social media etc and a huge rise in cases over the same period of time . Coincidence ? I’m not so sure .

The rise in “cases” could be many things eg awareness and confidence with the subject?

Sure there’s some high profile people who are getting attention but this is more down to the territory of being high profile. There’s far more I’m aware of who’ve simply changed their pronouns quietly and moved on.

 

[Triggaaar]

Gut instinct. There’s been a huge amount of publicity in the last 4-5 years , social media etc and a huge rise in cases over the same period of time . Coincidence ? I’m not so sure .

It won't be a coincidence. Ignoring people with personality disorders for a minute (who just need attention), there will be people who are genuinely trans, who feel more able to be open about it now than they used to. Just as more people come out as gay now that being gay is more accepted.

I trust that you agree that quite a lot of people are genuinely gay/lesbian? Yet there are none in Saudi Arabia. Is there something in our water? Obviously there are plenty of gay/lesbian people in Saudi Arabia, but coming out is simply not an option there. If their laws and culture changed such that it was accepted, people would come out as gay. Would you then say that those people are only pretending to be gay because of the rise in publicity, social media etc? Or would you recognise that they've suddenly come out because they can do so without being executed?

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Sorry, not in favour of those who just want some skin - any skin - in the game. The WAGMI United cryptobros that took over Crawley Town last season had their bid for Bradford City rejected a couple of months earlier. Eddie Izzard had their bid to be Labour candidate for Sheffield Central rejected at the back end of last year. These are not people of local conviction. It's purely about them and their personal aspirations. Just say no kidz