[Brighton] Crystal Palace Fan Labour Brighton Pavilion MP Candidate

[Glawstergull]

My perception is that Eddie is on of those people who spends their life playing a role. He is an actor but it’s a 24-7 job. He is playing a character of his choosing. I imagine it makes himself feel better/safe/comfortable. I don’t believe he has the challenges of those who have the biological and emotional complications. Whilst it’s a bit look at me I’m not bothered.

 

[beorhthelm]

Really? That’s basic politeness and not at all specific to the trans community. If somebody says to you that they’re a doctor, or a Ms rather than a Miss or a Mrs, do you huff and throw your arms up in the air at using a different pronoun to your default for a gender?

Society evolves, and we evolve with it or become marginalised. They are our only choices.

I mean no disrespect to you, but it’s the way of the world. I’m going to leave this here.

people dont start claims if they're labeled Miss rather than Mrs or Dr. maybe should recognise the problem thats created isn't the gender identity, it's the aggressive enforcement by others. admittedly there's little of this here, in the states with their litigious society they are going hard on these things, some of that bleeds other through social media. if more had a relaxed approach like Izzard there'd be a lot less fuss, less reaction and counter-reaction.

 

[beorhthelm]

Aside from the inevitable bin fest over Trans rights that this thread has descended into, I'm intrigued as to why Izzard and the Labour Party have chosen this specific seat to fight.

Surely the aim of all current opposition parties is to ensure we don't have a Tory government after the next election. This seat has been held by the Green Party (Caroline Lucas) since 2010 and she has from what I've seen been a fantastic MP both nationally and in representing her constituents.

Surely there are 100s of seats that are currently held by Tories that would be better to target? Ms Izzard's notoriety would make wherever she stands a major talking point.

I guess what I'm saying is, why target this seat, where there is a strong Green Party base, when in many ways the green party are more closely aligned with Labour?

I'm not a local resident but I'm sure many locals feel the same way.

trouble is Labour will have hundreds of members and activists in Brighton Pavillion, they want their party and the party wants to represent them. same up and down the country, parties with aspiration of national representation dont duck out of tricky seats or play local tactics.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

As an out of touch old guy it is really sad if a person feels they are born into the wrong body. I know people in that situation and life is not easy and the decisions are difficult. These are brave people. The people I know have done what they needed to do and just get on with life - as we all do. They do not demand particular respect - any more than anyone else.

And that is one of the problems with this debate. Too many people want to demand attention or recognition or respect. Too many look for ill-intent. Too many people see it as a stick for whatever side of the culture war they feel they are on. My experience is that most people do not care either way beyond wanting a fellow human to have a fulfilled, enjoyable life. There is no need for a song and dance.

 

[Springal]

As an out of touch old guy it is really sad if a person feels they are born into the wrong body. I know people in that situation and life is not easy and the decisions are difficult. These are brave people. The people I know have done what they needed to do and just get on with life - as we all do. They do not demand particular respect - any more than anyone else.

Agreed ! And there are some of these people in our fan base, with season tickets who attend Brighton games so the disrespect from other fans towards them is sad.

 

[Live by the sea]

If someone who is born a man, but doesn't recognise themselves as being a man (ie, feels the way they imagine women feel, rather than the way men feel), then why shouldn't they be able to be a woman and be called a woman?

Yes it is a bit odd compared to what you're used to. So what? Lots of things in this colourful world are a bit different.

As for 'you're not a woman just because you say you are' - actually, you might be. 'Woman' is just a word in the English language to describe certain people, and if we're saying that the word includes people who identify as being a woman, then you are a woman if you identify as being one.

You can close your mind to the world around you if you like, but I'm not sure you're doing yourself any favours, and you won't stop progress. Or you could try and be open-minded, and understand that the world isn't quite as simple as we were lead to believe when we were young.

Just because we have advanced medical science doesn’t mean it should be used in all cases . Look at the old frankinstein films .
I’ve read several stories about people having surgery to change sex and then years later bitterly regretted it .

I think more physiological help is needed for the people that say they want to charge sex not rush to do a life changing procedure.

 

[WATFORD zero]

I really can't understand why anybody with any reasonable amount of control, choice and authority over their own lives would then spend so much time arguing about someone else doing similar.

And always so angrily

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I do know the difference, one is a scientific fact and the other a recently invented social construct.

You don't think people chose to be gay, too, do you, by any chance?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Just because we have advanced medical science doesn’t mean it should be used in all cases . Look at the old frankinstein films .
I’ve read several stories about people having surgery to change sex and then years later bitterly regretted it .

I think more physiological help is needed for the people that say they want to charge sex not rush to do a life changing procedure.

Very famous stories. The exceptions that fail to prove the rule. I see you have woken up wearing your hoity toity pajamas again this morning.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Aside from the inevitable bin fest over Trans rights that this thread has descended into, I'm intrigued as to why Izzard and the Labour Party have chosen this specific seat to fight.

Surely the aim of all current opposition parties is to ensure we don't have a Tory government after the next election. This seat has been held by the Green Party (Caroline Lucas) since 2010 and she has from what I've seen been a fantastic MP both nationally and in representing her constituents.

Surely there are 100s of seats that are currently held by Tories that would be better to target? Ms Izzard's notoriety would make wherever she stands a major talking point.

I guess what I'm saying is, why target this seat, where there is a strong Green Party base, when in many ways the green party are more closely aligned with Labour?

I'm not a local resident but I'm sure many locals feel the same way.

I can only assume that labour intend to take seats off the greens.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

people dont start claims if they're labeled Miss rather than Mrs or Dr. maybe should recognise the problem thats created isn't the gender identity, it's the aggressive enforcement by others. admittedly there's little of this here, in the states with their litigious society they are going hard on these things, some of that bleeds other through social media. if more had a relaxed approach like Izzard there'd be a lot less fuss, less reaction and counter-reaction.

Not sure our woody understands you post

 

[Triggaaar]

Just because we have advanced medical science doesn’t mean it should be used in all cases . Look at the old frankinstein films .

No, but that's not relevant to the point. Are you fighting to stop people like Katie Price messing up their bodies?

I’ve read several stories about people having surgery to change sex and then years later bitterly regretted it .

So the argument there would be to help support people to ensure that people are really sure before having any surgery. I agree with you that it's obviously sad for people who regret having surgery. But again, that's got nothing to do with whether people should have the right to be what they want to be.

I think more physiological help is needed for the people that say they want to charge sex not rush to do a life changing procedure.

I agree about not rushing, and extra help for people would be good.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

I don’t think Izzard has much chance of being elected as candidate. Politics is a serious business. When I see an obvious bloke dressed up as a woman, particularly in the comic caricatured Monty Python-style way that Eddie favours, my instinct is to laugh out loud. Like seeing someone fall over in the street. Against all one's better instincts, it’s hard not to guffaw.

 

[Triggaaar]

He could introduce himself to me as an antelope, it doesn’t make it true.

That's a typical response from someone whose mind is closed. People aren't asking to be called antelopes are they. You are a man and you feel like a man, so you understand that. You don't understand what it's like for someone who feels the same as you, but who was born as a woman. It doesn't negatively affect you to let them live their lives as a man so I don't understand why you need to fight it. It's as if you're worried that there's some cult trying to convert people to change, and that soon there'll be no men left. There isn't, you don't need to worry.

 

[Triggaaar]

he is a bloke, end off.

She isn't, and your well thought out 'end of' clearly isn't actually going to end this.

 

[wellquickwoody]

Not sure our woody understands you post

I’m sure you believe that you are more intelligent than others find you to be, common trait when patronising

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I’m sure you believe that you are more intelligent than others find you to be, common trait when patronising

I do call out stupidity, yes, that's true. If the cap fits, enjoy the wearing of it

 

[Triggaaar]

I will add that there are a very tiny minority of people who do have a genuine issue with the body that they were born into. This does not include the majority of those who just wish look different, to rebel, and be oh so cool. They are twats.

I'd actually agree with you that someone being trans just to rebel and be cool is in fact just a twat. But we're not discussing the people who are just attention seeking twats, we're discussing the genuine people who feel that they are different to the body they have.

Obviously it's not possible to tell who is just attention seeking, and who has genuine issues with their body and identity, so it's best just to let people be. Just like anyone you come across could be a decent person or could be a complete bell-end, and it's better just to assume they're alright until evidence proves otherwise.

 

[Triggaaar]

I have no issue with how others lead their lives, but me having to remember which pronoun to use to someone because my employer is concerned about harassment/bullying claims is utter bollocks.

Ah, so this is the cause of your angst - you are living in fear day to day of accidentally using the wrong pronoun at work and getting in trouble.

If you try and use the correct pronouns, but get it wrong sometimes, I'd hope your employer is understanding that it's easy to make mistakes and that's all it is. If not, then the issue here is really your employer, not trans people. If however you insist on going round telling trans women at work 'I ain't 'aving' it, you're a cock and ball geezer', then you don't really have a problem remembering pronouns, you have a problem fitting in to a free society. You might do better living somewhere like Russia or the Middle East.

 

[Triggaaar]

I have no problem in calling people what they are.

There's an open goal right there