dougdeep
New member
The wind of change has reached hurricane force in the corridors of power. Sorry I came over all Andy Naylor then.
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Crewe by-election official thread
- Thread starter The Clown of Pevensey Bay
- Start date
Buzzer
Languidly Clinical
- Oct 1, 2006
- 26,121
Labour absolutely humiliated in Euro elections. Tories would have cleaned up entirely if it wasn't for UKIP.
2007 Labour suffer their worst local election results up to that point.
2008 Labour destroyed in local election AGAIN even from a weak base and worst results ever coming 3rd behind Lib Dems for only the 2nd time in their history.
Gordon Brown in his honeymoon period as PM has lowest ratings ever.
Labour loses flagship London mayoral elections with the maverick left wing incumbent losing to a toff Tory.
Labour heartland seat swings to Tories with a bigger majority than the much-respected previous Labour MP.
Every single poll, every single political analyst of any note, every single newspaper of of any political persuasion has Tories with double digit leads.
Senior economists from around the world predict rising inflation in Britain, more squeeze on credit, low growth rates, increases in food and petrol prices. Unemployment rising, repossessions and business failures rising.
Gap between rich and poor in Britain getting wider and wider according to respected independent analysts.
Teachers on strike for the first time in 20 years.
Police vote to have the right to withdraw their labour for the first time in their history.
Labour control as many councils in Wales as the Tories. Labour have lost Scotland to the SNP.
Any trends there, LB?
Tom Hark Preston Park
Will Post For Cash
- Jul 6, 2003
- 72,664
Buzzer, I'm of the opinion that when you talk politics, you only pretend to be objective and in fact you're quite one-eyed when it comes to the two big political parties. Half of those points are nonsensical or irrelevent. Whats all this "if it wasn't for UKIP" bollocks? You may as well say Labour would have come close to retaining their seat in Crewe if it wasn't for the Lib Dems. And lets be objective about their showing in Wales in Scotland too. Despite their popularity being at its lowest ever, the number of council seats MP still SHITS over anything the Tories have managed.
And whilst the growing gap between rich and poor is a problem, it's not like the Tories EVER did anything to tackle it in 15 years is it? And what's that got to do with any sort of trend? Teachers on strike? Well yes, but I grew up at a time under the Tories when they were ALWAYS on strike. Actually I think the disgraceful way Labour have treated the POLICE is of far greater concern.
Council election results have never had any bearing on the results at the general elections, and a good thing too. Finally, I can't say I'm that impressed with Brown as PM, but to blame him for rising oil prices seems a little unfair. I'd say ANY government would struggle in those circumstances. However I would agree that this government has failed to handle the credit crunch problem. And they did nothing to curb rising house prices and now it's coming back to bite us all on the arse.
Dandyman
In London village.
The current Labour meltdown is Blairism coming home to roost. Neo-Labour have lost both members and millions of votes since 1997 due to their ever more right-wing, authoritarian, two-faced behaviour. The only oddity is that people are stupid enough to think Cameron offers anything other than the same menu minus the minimum wage, tax credits, and Sure Start sweeteners.
Buzzer
Languidly Clinical
- Oct 1, 2006
- 26,121
Fair dos. I'm not objective. If I've given the impression that I am then it was unintentional. I'm absolutely 100% dyed-in-the-wool Tory. Always have been. Even under Thatcher I'd have voted for her if it meant keeping socialism out of British politics.
I don't think they are irrelevant. LB talked about trends and I think all those issues point towards a Government in serious, serious trouble with the electorate. UKIP was borne almost entirely out of disaffected Tories so the UKIP thing is relevant I'd say. What do you mean by council seat MPs. I thought there were more Tory councillors by a wide wide margin than any other party. As for the Wales and Scotland thing, it shows Labour is losing its grip in its heartland. That's not to say the Tories will necessarily profit there - in Scotland they're still infra dig.
The rich/poor thing is surely Labour's raison d'etre. More than anything else and they have failed. The oil prices isn't the Government's fault but the Treasury has set 2 things as the mark of a well managed economy inflation and unemployment. In that order. It now looks very very likely that inflation will rise sharply and with the huge debt we now have (personal and national), this government has very little room to manoeuvre.
What do the Tories offer? At the moment very little except a vote against Labour and a vague promise of a centre-right slant in future policies as yet undisclosed.
Yes, they should stop cosying towards big business and acknowledge that they've never really cared about the poor...or the North...or the public sector workers. I'm not entirely convinced that Thatcherism is dead and buried nor that one-nation Conservatism is in the ascendancy but in my eyes I'd rather a Tory government than one run by socialists, pseudo-socialists or chancers like Hoon and Blair.
Re-reading this, I've used the word 'thing' a lot. Apologies. Lazy writing.
coventrygull
the right one
The tragedy for British politics is there dosen't appear to be an alternative
I don't buy into this con thing any more than I buy into the lack of choice.
For the past 20 years, the battle for power has been fought on the middle ground. Finally. And a good thing too, since that is where most of the British people stand. Personally, I don't want a choice between dogmatic socialism or Thatcherite monetarism - you can poke that choice up your arse. So yes, the choice is clearly not so much about ideologies, it is about which party seems the more competent. The Tories got swept aside for that reason, and now it looks like the same thing will happen to Labour without some major surgery.
And Buzzer, I don't agree about Labour's raison d'etre being to resolve the gap between rich and poor. The poor shouldn't care less about the rich, so long as their own lot is improving - to do so is the politics of jealousy, and to be fair to Labour, that is where the likes of the social charter and minimum wage have come into play. The Tories forever bleated that it would harm British industry, but the simple fact is that it didn't.
I think I'm going to vote for the party that looks most competent. At this stage I'm undecided, but I certainly won't be voting Tory simply because Labour look a complete shambles.
BUTTERBALL
East Stand Brighton Boyz
Why don't they just introduce a 42p tax band for earnings above £100,000. That would solve it. Simple!
coventrygull
the right one
As there is no difference between the two then what is the point of voting. I just can't get excited about it. If its about who manages the economy. Surely that has sod all to do with goverment and more to do with the economic situation in the world. You coulld say it all depends on how they handle that situation but as both parties are controled by big business they are not going to do much.
Oh and i think the facts state that the gap between rich and poor under labour has got wider.
I don't want to choose between two ideologies so far apart, so for me, the point of voting is that one group of people will be more competent than the other. I want them to remain on their toes, and not to take power for granted.
And the gap between rich and poor has indeed got wider. As it has, for the past 25 years. Nothing new here, and would you trust the Tories to reduce it? In any case, it certainly does annoy me that Labour pledged to improve this, and have failed to do so.
And the gap between rich and poor has indeed got wider. As it has, for the past 25 years. Nothing new here, and would you trust the Tories to reduce it? In any case, it certainly does annoy me that Labour pledged to improve this, and have failed to do so.
To me it feels like Labour spent 11 years not really doing that much, sure new public facilities have been built BUT the potential has been squandered by various stupid ideas at reform, like PFI schemes or specialised schools. Then those reforms have been retracted or changed, making it all useless anyway.
coventrygull
the right one
No I don't trust the tories to improve this as they are the same as Labour hence my point. With the gap getting ever wider there could come a time that we have real nasty social problems. Whether that is serious crime or social rebellion. If someone does not stop the rot soon its going to blow big time
Gully
Monkey in a seagull suit.
Is the gap likely to narrow if we replace the current Government with one led by Cameron and his Old Etonian cohorts...who probably don't have a clue what poverty really means?
I personally think the political system(in a way) needs reform. It's unhealthy when a party remains in power for long blocs, as has been the case in the last two instances and could well happen again if Brown keeps imploding.
It just gives parties an excuse to take AGES to do anything, because they can't change it in one term(as Blair said?) and by the time they begin to enact reform(YEARS later) it is time for another lot to have a go and start undoing it.
User removed 4
New member
nobody in this country knows what poverty really means, its all relative , go to some of the third world slums and see kids with their ribs sticking out to find out what poverty really means
Gully
Monkey in a seagull suit.
I agree that all things are relative, how we define poverty in the UK will be vastly different to countries in many other parts of the World, developed or otherwise.
How would you define poverty?
How would you define poverty?
London Calling
New member
We all know that politically I do not agree with Buzzer, but the above is reality, that's how the rest of the UK see the present Government performance.
The 10p tax fiasco, has been the straw that broke "the working class supporting Labour" back. The 10p tax removal has hit the Labour heartlands the hardest. If you're worst of financially under Labour which is removing distribution taxes and reallying instead on regressive taxes, why vote for them.
Until Brown has the balls to bring back that 10p threshold, keep the equally good and vote winning 20p threshold and also the bureaucratic working time credits (whatever they are called). To ensure the Labour vote is held and wanderers returned.
Expect more of the electorate telling Brown, your crap!
Don't forget, in the low income and working class areas of London, Ken vote was up, big style. If a normal Labour politician had been Mayor, you would have seen a whopping thrashing in London.
LC
User removed 4
New member
being cold , hungry,inadequate shelter , threadbare clothes , poor health provision
London Calling
New member
Its a % thing,
This is I believe the present definition.
"The widely accepted definition of poverty is having an income which is less than 60% of the national average (excluding the wealthiest members of society). On this measure, the proportion of the UK population defined as in poverty is roughly one in five."
It has hardly changed in % terms since Victorian times!
In fact, unless there is massive, redistribution of wealth in the uK, we will always have a realitively great proportion of our population in poverty. We have one of the greatest disparities of wealth in the world, and especially in Europe.
You will note that the countries with lowest levels of poverty are the great wealth distributors in the north east Europe - the Nordic countries.
As it happens, statistically, the east end of London, namely, Hackney, Newham, and Tower Hamlets are classed as the poorest area in Europe!
No bad considering this area is adjacent to the City and Canary Wharf.
LC