[News] Craig Mackey , cowardly copper

[alfredmizen]

The other people in the car were not OB.



Given that the entire incident was over in 90 seconds, and there were armed protection officers on the scene, no action he had taken would have made a material difference (except to HIS reputation).

he didnt know that at the tjme

 

[Insel affe]

hes not a civvy though , is he ?

He is kind of though isn't he, probably one of those who never actually pounded the streets, fast tracked up the ranks, through funny hand shakes, straight from Oxford or Cambridge, paid to ultimately make decisions about targets, budgets and policing methods as opposed to actual being on the ground.
Which is why I understand why he did what he did,
Surely you know that from your army days with some of the higher ranking Officers, and I understand why you think like you do, and yes it is hard to understand sometimes you would expect him to jump out and take command, but it is not the movies and he did not know the scale of the attack at the time, which is a hard call to make on the ground.

 

[Taybha]

Iv'e done the have a go hero bit without thinking just wading in , lost 2 teeth and have a lovely reminder scar on my bonce which rules out my fav number 2 style haircut , would i do it again ? no idea , but i can't judge somebody else for not putting themselves in harms way , that bloke will always think upon his actions or lack of and probably regret doing what he did , but i bet his family will be thankful he didn't do a rambo , can't say i like what he did but in the circumstances i wonder if i would of done the same , who knows until your'e put into the situation itself .

 

[hans kraay fan club]

he didnt know that at the tjme

Granted. Having re-read it though, it was 82 seconds between the killer driving his car into the crowd, to the point he himself was shot dead.

Let's guess at 30 seconds for him to have got out of the car and start waving his knives about. Take off another ten seconds from the point Mackey saw the armed officers run past the car. You're left with 40 seconds in which he has to take stock of the situation and decide a course of action.

I'm neither defending or castigating the bloke - I just think that trying to second guess the right course of action months later, at your leisure, with the benefit of hindsight (you know there were no other attackers, that there was no explosives, etc) in the comfort of your office chair, isn't really fair.

You talk of the response you expect of a trained soldier / officer, and I understand, of course. I'm also pretty sure that even soldiers, despite their obvious natural reaction to a comrade in peril, are NOT trained to jump in without assessing the situation first?

 

[Chicken Run]

Granted. Having re-read it though, it was 82 seconds between the killer driving his car into the crowd, to the point he himself was shot dead.

Let's guess at 30 seconds for him to have got out of the car and start waving his knives about. Take off another ten seconds from the point Mackey saw the armed officers run past the car. You're left with 40 seconds in which he has to take stock of the situation and decide a course of action.

I'm neither defending or castigating the bloke - I just think that trying to second guess the right course of action months later, at your leisure, with the benefit of hindsight (you know there were no other attackers, that there was no explosives, etc) in the comfort of your office chair, isn't really fair.

You talk of the response you expect of a trained soldier / officer, and I understand, of course. I'm also pretty sure that even soldiers, despite their obvious natural reaction to a comrade in peril, are NOT trained to jump in without assessing the situation first?

Certainly not trained, it’s in your moral instinct to help your comrades! The guy imho should have been out of that car looking to help colleagues!

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Certainly not trained, it’s in your moral instinct to help your comrades! The guy imho should have been out of that car looking to help colleagues!

That's the NATURAL reaction, yes. My point is that I'd expect their training would be absolutely the opposite - to NOT pile in without assessing the situation.

 

[junior]

The Police Force is full of cowardly individuals who beat the shit out of members of the Public in Police Custody or in the street when they outnumber people. Very few of them are ''have a go heros'' although there are obviously some.
.

What a load of bollocks.

 

[alfredmizen]

Granted. Having re-read it though, it was 82 seconds between the killer driving his car into the crowd, to the point he himself was shot dead.

Let's guess at 30 seconds for him to have got out of the car and start waving his knives about. Take off another ten seconds from the point Mackey saw the armed officers run past the car. You're left with 40 seconds in which he has to take stock of the situation and decide a course of action.

I'm neither defending or castigating the bloke - I just think that trying to second guess the right course of action months later, at your leisure, with the benefit of hindsight (you know there were no other attackers, that there was no explosives, etc) in the comfort of your office chair, isn't really fair.

You talk of the response you expect of a trained soldier / officer, and I understand, of course. I'm also pretty sure that even soldiers, despite their obvious natural reaction to a comrade in peril, are NOT trained to jump in without assessing the situation first?

ive not mentioned the response i would expect from a soldier at alll

 

[hans kraay fan club]

ive not mentioned the response i would expect from a soldier at alll

Okay - non-civilian, then? - you've commented on whether or not he was 'a civvy', presumably as you feel that makes a difference to how he should have reacted. Thus you agree that his training should have influenced his actions?

I'm asking you whether armed forces training (for example) is generally to rush into an entirely undefined dangerous situation, without assessing it first (for 40 seconds or more).

 

[surlyseagull]

Iv'e done the have a go hero bit without thinking just wading in , lost 2 teeth and have a lovely reminder scar on my bonce which rules out my fav number 2 style haircut , would i do it again ? no idea , but i can't judge somebody else for not putting themselves in harms way , that bloke will always think upon his actions or lack of and probably regret doing what he did , but i bet his family will be thankful he didn't do a rambo , can't say i like what he did but in the circumstances i wonder if i would of done the same , who knows until your'e put into the situation itself .

Totally agree ….Its not an every day scenario even for a police officer so we cant envisage what it would be like unless we lived through it.

 

[alfredmizen]

Okay - non-civilian, then? - you've commented on whether or not he was 'a civvy', presumably as you feel that makes a difference to how he should have reacted. Thus you agree that his training should have influenced his actions?

I'm asking you whether armed forces training (for example) is generally to rush into an entirely undefined dangerous situation, without assessing it first (for 40 seconds or more).

if you see a comrade getting stabbed , as he did , the response would be to get involved ASAP

 

[alfredmizen]

Okay - non-civilian, then? - you've commented on whether or not he was 'a civvy', presumably as you feel that makes a difference to how he should have reacted. Thus you agree that his training should have influenced his actions?

I'm asking you whether armed forces training (for example) is generally to rush into an entirely undefined dangerous situation, without assessing it first (for 40 seconds or more).

i havent made the original points on whether he was a civvy or not , ive commented on what others have put.

 

[Ernest]

If you want the rank then you show leadership, locking yourself in your car whilst one of your men is being killed is simply wrong. He should resign as he can't have any authority left now

 

[hans kraay fan club]

if you see a comrade getting stabbed , as he did , the response would be to get involved ASAP

The understandable natural response, for sure.

 

[dangull]

How about just instructing the driver to hit the attacker with his car. Not much danger for the occupants in that scenario, although sill a stressful situation.

 

[Commander]

If you want the rank then you show leadership, locking yourself in your car whilst one of your men is being killed is simply wrong. He should resign as he can't have any authority left now

Exactly. When you get to a position of real power and no doubt reward, the deal is that when the shit hits the fan you have to put yourself on the line. No doubt you hope that it never happens, but if it does then that has to be the price that you are willing to pay.

It's called leadership.

 

[jakarta]

If you want the rank then you show leadership, locking yourself in your car whilst one of your men is being killed is simply wrong. He should resign as he can't have any authority left now

Bloody Hell, an ENREST post I agree with...

 

[LamieRobertson]

Iv'e done the have a go hero bit without thinking just wading in , lost 2 teeth and have a lovely reminder scar on my bonce which rules out my fav number 2 style haircut , would i do it again ? no idea , but i can't judge somebody else for not putting themselves in harms way , that bloke will always think upon his actions or lack of and probably regret doing what he did , but i bet his family will be thankful he didn't do a rambo , can't say i like what he did but in the circumstances i wonder if i would of done the same , who knows until your'e put into the situation itself .

 

[LVGull]

Bloody Hell, an ENREST post I agree with...

And me. As I said earlier an officer should lead by example.

 

[Ernest]

Exactly. When you get to a position of real power and no doubt reward, the deal is that when the shit hits the fan you have to put yourself on the line. No doubt you hope that it never happens, but if it does then that has to be the price that you are willing to pay.

It's called leadership.

I never realised he was a Sir either, he should be stripped of that as well.