[News] Craig Mackey , cowardly copper

[Big G]

Im not going to argue semantics with you, but Knowing how to use your PPE is not the same as having to carry it.

I cannot recall any of my senior ranking officers routinely carrying their PPE save for the riots in Croydon.

Only Mr Mackey knows how he will live with the choices he made that day, but all this talk of sticking him on is just frankly infantile.

And that is entirely my point...you can't recall any senior officer carrying PPE....How is that right?
They are still a police officer on duty are they not?.....

 

[Big G]

Tea boy!

I trust you had you're PPE with you whilst carrying out this role?

 

[Big G]

No I’m not a doorman and I’ve never buggered off from a situation in my career . It’s not an option (well on some jobs it is), especially with the amount of time it takes your mob to rock up ;-) And I never claimed to be a copper. I work in protection and safeguarding (people not property) but I’m not getting into a willy waving contest with you and certainly not going into much more detail than that on here.

If you don’t want anyone else’s opinion on matters probably best you avoid this board because you’re gonna see a lot of differing opinions. My opinion is, I wasn't there so I cannot say. However, if he was in a car with someone who was charged with protecting him, then that someone discharged their duty admirably.

I have a lot of the respect for the police, there have been times when seeing them turn up has been like the cavalry arriving. But my guess is you weren't personally there during the incident and you weren't part of the debriefing or the review so i'm afraid that makes your take on the matter an opinion and not fact.

Did security work before I joined the Police and a bit just after but probably not to your level mate and have to agree when shit goes down it feels like an eternity for the police to turn up...probably even worse nowadays Had a few offers of work doing the circuit in the Middle East but as you probably know its all short term contract stuff and didn't fancy forking out £1500 for the close protection licence in the UK with no guarantee of work after.
But I digress....my understanding of this issue is that he initially stated he couldn't get involved as he had no personal protective equipment with him!!
And that is entirely my point....is he or is he not a Police Officer....He is..therefore is duty bound to honour the oath he took to protect life and limb!
The fact he chose to leave his PPE behind is his alone...as police officer he is re-certified every year to use that equipment.......regardless of rank or role!
Therefore he should have had his PPE with him whilst out of the station in public.........fact!!!
I ask you this.....If a loved one of yours was being attacked and a police officer locked himself in his car rather than engage the offender because he didn't have any equipment with him...how would you feel?....Is he a police officer or not.......there is no regulation that states you are exempt from your basic duties as an officer to protect life and limb if you are promoted to a senior rank!!

 

[The Clamp]

Did security work before I joined the Police and a bit just after but probably not to your level mate and have to agree when shit goes down it feels like an eternity for the police to turn up...probably even worse nowadays Had a few offers of work doing the circuit in the Middle East but as you probably know its all short term contract stuff and didn't fancy forking out £1500 for the close protection licence in the UK with no guarantee of work after.
But I digress....my understanding of this issue is that he initially stated he couldn't get involved as he had no personal protective equipment with him!!
And that is entirely my point....is he or is he not a Police Officer....He is..therefore is duty bound to honour the oath he took to protect life and limb!
The fact he chose to leave his PPE behind is his alone...as police officer he is re-certified every year to use that equipment.......regardless of rank or role!
Therefore he should have had his PPE with him whilst out of the station in public.........fact!!!
I ask you this.....If a loved one of yours was being attacked and a police officer locked himself in his car rather than engage the offender because he didn't have any equipment with him...how would you feel?....Is he a police officer or not.......there is no regulation that states you are exempt from your basic duties as an officer to protect life and limb if you are promoted to a senior rank!!

I work in safe houses now so thankfully it’s more of a safeguarding role than frontline protection. We have our moments but most of the work is done before we receive clients. A quieter life!

I absolutely take on board what you say and with your experience, I wouldn’t argue with any of it. It sounds like he should have been more prepared to take a proactive role in this incident. I would be interested to know if he had a choice or if he was whisked away as it were? I only hesitate to use the word coward as in my experience it’s usually more of an error of judgement or a fouled up real time risk assessment that leads to bad decisions as opposed to direct cowardice. Who knows, maybe he is a plain coward. Sounds like he should have at least been kitted up to be able to respond if needed. He’ll certainly never be respected by police on the ground again.

 

[afcb]

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[Big G]

Bang on mate...however back in the day we didnt really have any PPE did we ...yet he's in that age and service group. I had three decades of shootings /stabbings / murders...even the IRA trying to blow us up and not once did I see a senior officer leg it ..back off yes but **** me to completely leave the scene in a locked vehicle....never.

Think back in our day mate even a senior officer with no equipment would have probably got the wheel brace or car jack from the boot of the car and got stuck in?

 

[spence]

Did security work before I joined the Police and a bit just after but probably not to your level mate and have to agree when shit goes down it feels like an eternity for the police to turn up...probably even worse nowadays Had a few offers of work doing the circuit in the Middle East but as you probably know its all short term contract stuff and didn't fancy forking out £1500 for the close protection licence in the UK with no guarantee of work after.
But I digress....my understanding of this issue is that he initially stated he couldn't get involved as he had no personal protective equipment with him!!
And that is entirely my point....is he or is he not a Police Officer....He is..therefore is duty bound to honour the oath he took to protect life and limb!
The fact he chose to leave his PPE behind is his alone...as police officer he is re-certified every year to use that equipment.......regardless of rank or role!
Therefore he should have had his PPE with him whilst out of the station in public.........fact!!!
I ask you this.....If a loved one of yours was being attacked and a police officer locked himself in his car rather than engage the offender because he didn't have any equipment with him...how would you feel?....Is he a police officer or not.......there is no regulation that states you are exempt from your basic duties as an officer to protect life and limb if you are promoted to a senior rank!!

Great post.

 

[darkwolf666]

Think back in our day mate even a senior officer with no equipment would have probably got the wheel brace or car jack from the boot of the car and got stuck in?

I guess therein lies the rub. Back in the day the assailants were the likes of the IRA, who were never ones to take part in hand to hand combat, but more likely to hide behind a cloak of anonymity and blow up their victims from afar... the modern enemy is a different piece of work completely, and is happy to blow themselves and anyone in their way into a million pieces.

That was the choice and stark reality Mr Mackey, acting Met Commissioner had to face at that moment. All the PPE in the world wouldn’t have saved him or Keith Palmer if Masood had been wearing a suicide belt.