Craig Davies: Pots & Kettles

[logan89]

I have not seen enough of him to pass judgement, so refuse to do so. I'm not going to jump on his back without good reason. I have elsewhere in this thread pointed out what I see as flaws in some of the arguments against him (such as the claim Murray would have scored, when we've seen murray go through goalless spells lasting long than the couple of weeks that makes up Davies's), and was pointing out that your comment about him being played "out of position" (I feel you may mean it is more the wrong tactics for him) has been said about so many players this year at our club. Just an observation, not so much a counter point to yours.




I didn't forget, I deliberately deleted it so as to make it clear what point I was referring to.

I'm unsure if explaining why it is the wrong position elevates it above other comments, the sentiment is the same "the team should be picked to fit around a player". I'm of the belief a player should be picked to fit the team.

It's one of Martin Samuels' bug bears, one that I share, that in England we foster an system and culture that forces our players to pick one position, one set of tactics, make that their best position, and not expect any more from them. Whereas on the continent players tend to develop with an appreciation for the need to adapt and fill other positions to fit the teams' needs. I believe we should expect of all players, whether they be Gerrard (who wants the England team built around him, just like Rooney does, and Lampard, and Beckham...) or whether they be Sam Cook.

Of course, that's simply an opinion.

I never said lets build a team around Davies did i, i must be misreading my own posts here. All i said is that we are missing a midfielder who will get forward and support the strikers. This is the fact for whoever plays upfront and not just Davies. You also went on to say that on the Continent they can adapt their game, try new positions etc. This is true through their development but when they get to the professional stage where when they find their 'best' position they are played there. You don't see van Nistlerooy playing Left Midfield or Cannavaro playing Center Midfield do you, but you see this at our club in the form of Davies and Virgo etc.

i think you really need to either read the posts beter or interpret them differently because you missing all the points.

 

[Acker79]

I never said lets build a team around Davies did i, i must be misreading my own posts here.

Maybe I'm reading wrong, but you seem to be getting a little defensive. My comment about the lets build the team around the player was not directed specifically at you, but at the general attitude in English football.

You also went on to say that on the Continent they can adapt their game, try new positions etc. This is true through their development but when they get to the professional stage where when they find their 'best' position they are played there. You don't see van Nistlerooy playing Left Midfield or Cannavaro playing Center Midfield do you,

You see Dirk Kuyt brought to Liverpool as a striker, after tremendous success in the dutch league (top scorer two out of his final three years there, I believe, including three years as his club's top scorer) now occupying the right flank, with aplomb. You see european players come to our shores and adapt their game and excel in new systems, in new styles of games. Don't get a lot going the other way. You see European teams (as in countries) being able to play different systems. You see people criticising McClaren when the team lines up 4-3-3 before the games even kicked off.

You see Tevez, Ronaldo, etc shifting around the park at Utd. You see Benitez trying different systems and positions, the only people complaining about not playing ion their best spot? Gerrard and Carragher.

i think you really need to either read the posts beter or interpret them differently because you missing all the points.

I like discussion and debate, I'm trying to expand this discussion beyond the "davies is shit" / "give him a chance" argument it started as. My points aren't necessarily meant as counter points to yours, they are meant to help the discussion move on and grow.

 

[logan89]

With regards to the Kuyt thing, i think he is shit on the right. No pace, can't cross, doesn't defend. He is bailed out by Torres, Gerrard and even Arbeloa who are all having fantastic seasons.

I think you'll also find that Gerrard is able to adapt, he looks the best player on the pitch for Liverpool when he's played upfront, on the left, on the right. Did you know that when he first broke into the first team he played, that's right, right back. We've got players like Micah Richards, Wes Brown, Joe Cole, Wayne Rooney, Rio Ferdinand, Leighton Baines, Ledley King, Joleen Lescott, Gareth Barry, David Beckham, Gabriel Agbonglahor, Ashley Young etc. that can all 'adapt' and play in positions that are not considered their prefered position.

 

[Silent Bob]

If we are having a pop at Davies, what about Owusu. For a big man, I have never seen someone fall to the ground so often. The times when all he has to do is hold it up, but no...he hurls himself to the ground...it happened three times in front of us in the F block.

He makes Ronaldo look like he has just won the play fair award.

Probably worth taking into account for both Owusu and Davies that the Tranmere defence was pretty good. Owusu hardly won a header all game.

 

[Don Quixote]

He made a genius cross though. Just dinked it with the outside of his right foot. He's got some class, he'll score a goal next match and the goals will be flowing. Don't demoralise him, we've ruined enough players already.

 

[Lady Whistledown]

Davies strikes me as a hot and cold sort of player- he'll go for a spell without scoring, and then once one goes in, a few more will follow.

It's ridiculous to call him talentless, he merely appears to me to be going through one of those phases where, no matter how hard you try, nothing comes off. He needs one to go in off his arse, as the saying goes. He's clearly putting the effort in, but sometimes in life you can try too hard to make things happen, rather than just relaxing and doing what you normally do (easier said than done though as nobody wants to be seen to be coasting).

I think the guy deserves better than to be called a "f***ing wanker" by his own fans, or to have people wishing he'd get sent off. Especially by the sort of people who'll be the first to leap on the bandwagon if/when he hits a bit of form. From where I'm sitting, there's no little ability in there, but it's not going to stand out until he finds a bit of confidence from somewhere.

Sake, I don't recall Jake Robinson scoring bundles of goals this season, but nobody seems to be calling him a wanker.

 

[Questions]

Maybe I'm reading wrong, but you seem to be getting a little defensive. My comment about the lets build the team around the player was not directed specifically at you, but at the general attitude in English football.



You see Dirk Kuyt brought to Liverpool as a striker, after tremendous success in the dutch league (top scorer two out of his final three years there, I believe, including three years as his club's top scorer) now occupying the right flank, with aplomb. You see european players come to our shores and adapt their game and excel in new systems, in new styles of games. Don't get a lot going the other way. You see European teams (as in countries) being able to play different systems. You see people criticising McClaren when the team lines up 4-3-3 before the games even kicked off.

You see Tevez, Ronaldo, etc shifting around the park at Utd. You see Benitez trying different systems and positions, the only people complaining about not playing ion their best spot? Gerrard and Carragher.




I like discussion and debate, I'm trying to expand this discussion beyond the "davies is shit" / "give him a chance" argument it started as. My points aren't necessarily meant as counter points to yours, they are meant to help the discussion move on and grow.

Players who are not quite good enough to play as out and out strikers have to adapt or they leave their clubs. Kuyt has made that transition because he has a fair bit of ability but Davies will never make a wide man IMO. If we are relegated and Forster jacks it in and Murray sulks off somewhere, Davies will get a longer run and then we may see the best of him but judging on his performances so far he will not cut the mustard at the Albion.

 

[Questions]

Davies strikes me as a hot and cold sort of player- he'll go for a spell without scoring, and then once one goes in, a few more will follow.

It's ridiculous to call him talentless, he merely appears to me to be going through one of those phases where, no matter how hard you try, nothing comes off. He needs one to go in off his arse, as the saying goes. He's clearly putting the effort in, but sometimes in life you can try too hard to make things happen, rather than just relaxing and doing what you normally do (easier said than done though as nobody wants to be seen to be coasting).

I think the guy deserves better than to be called a "f***ing wanker" by his own fans, or to have people wishing he'd get sent off. Especially by the sort of people who'll be the first to leap on the bandwagon if/when he hits a bit of form. From where I'm sitting, there's no little ability in there, but it's not going to stand out until he finds a bit of confidence from somewhere.

Sake, I don't recall Jake Robinson scoring bundles of goals this season, but nobody seems to be calling him a wanker.[/QUOTE]

Does he call linesmen F...... W...... then.

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

When will Barndoor score ?

 

[mona]

Don't demoralise him, we've ruined enough players already.

Is this true?
Are the miserabilists of NSC affecting players in the team?

 

[SNOOPY]

lets get a few things straight here, a,davies isnt on 3 grand a week fact so the plank that made that comment needs to get his facts straight. b,davies came from oldham to a team that was in relegation he didnt need to leave oldham he could of gone back out on loan.c,its a team game so if your going to rip players to pieces start with some off the other players in the squad.d,sorry im not a fan im a oldham fan and ive been to the games and the whole team are shit so dont hide behind the pc and type junk davies is a good player and alot off the oldham fansfollow him as last season he was great.and scored 14 goals for us till he got injured

 

[SNOOPY]

one last thing i suppose you that critise can all play pro football

 

[NMH]

one last thing i suppose you that critise can all play pro football

You were doing fine until that comment.
No-one who hires a plumber has to be a pro plumber before they can comment on his work, and the same goes for players.

Oh and by the way, lucky I'm not hiring you to write in correct English.

 

[Billy the Fish]

lets get a few things straight here, a,davies isnt on 3 grand a week fact so the plank that made that comment needs to get his facts straight. b,davies came from oldham to a team that was in relegation he didnt need to leave oldham he could of gone back out on loan.c,its a team game so if your going to rip players to pieces start with some off the other players in the squad.d,sorry im not a fan im a oldham fan and ive been to the games and the whole team are shit so dont hide behind the pc and type junk davies is a good player and alot off the oldham fansfollow him as last season he was great.and scored 14 goals for us till he got injured

I wouldn't get offended, some albion fans just love slagging off our players, even murray gets abuse.

 

[logan89]

When will Barndoor score ?

He has scored, you need to change that to 'When will Barndoor score again?'

 

[Acker79]

With regards to the Kuyt thing, i think he is shit on the right. No pace, can't cross, doesn't defend. He is bailed out by Torres, Gerrard and even Arbeloa who are all having fantastic seasons.

I guess we'll have to disagree on that, because I think he works hard, helps support the team, gets goals occasionally. He doesn't do the job with the 'look at me!' flair of a ronaldo or Joe Cole, but he does the job. And he's done it well enough to continue playing international for his country in that position (as the striker positions are already occupied).

I think you'll also find that Gerrard is able to adapt,

But he doesn't do it without making it clear he doesn't like playing in other positions.

Micah Richards, Wes Brown, Joe Cole, Wayne Rooney, Rio Ferdinand, Leighton Baines, Ledley King, Joleen Lescott, Gareth Barry, David Beckham, Gabriel Agbonglahor, Ashley Young etc. that can all 'adapt' and play in positions that are not considered their prefered position.

But, and I don't know this on an individual player by player basis, but generally, they don't play as well in these alternate positions, and it is usually considered newsworthy that they have changed position, and we always like to make it clear that "this isn't their position".

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

He has scored, you need to change that to 'When will Barndoor score again?'

forgotten he had scored on his debut as it was so long ago. Only saw him play at Scunny where he put in a mediocre performance even though I was told he was playing out of position as a midfielder to support Fozzy. Other fans at the game thought he was enthusiastic but looked like he put in as much effort as Virgs did , which wasn't 100%.

 

[Don Tmatter]

lets get a few things straight here, a,davies isnt on 3 grand a week fact so the plank that made that comment needs to get his facts straight. b,davies came from oldham to a team that was in relegation he didnt need to leave oldham he could of gone back out on loan.c,its a team game so if your going to rip players to pieces start with some off the other players in the squad.d,sorry im not a fan im a oldham fan and ive been to the games and the whole team are shit so dont hide behind the pc and type junk davies is a good player and alot off the oldham fansfollow him as last season he was great.and scored 14 goals for us till he got injured

Don't let them get to you, Craig.
You're giving your all for the team

 

[SNOOPY]

sorry im a girl my name would hardly be craig you nobhead

 

[Acker79]

sorry im a girl my name would hardly be craig you nobhead

I believe Don Tmatter was directing his comments to Craig Davies, not to you, Snoopy.