Pevenseagull
meh
- Jul 20, 2003
- 20,680
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[Politics] Corbyn Party?
- Thread starter wellquickwoody
- Start date
Pevenseagull
meh
- Jul 20, 2003
- 20,680
'momentum' always sounded like one of the teams of 'The Apprentice ' to me.
Then I met a few of them.
They're not that bright.
Then I met a few of them.
They're not that bright.
London Irish
Well-known member
Thanks for gifting us Boris Johnson because you believed loads of lies in the Tory Press about Corbyn.
I’m from an Irish family and I know full well everything they said about him and Ireland was just utter shit
Colonel Mustard
Well-known member
- Jun 18, 2023
- 2,240
The Tories have enough trouble with Reform. Their vote is certain to drop sharply, if not completely collapse.
Is Corbyn planning to launch a new party? I read in the Guardian a while back that he was thinking seriously of running as an independent candidate in his own constituency but not that he was considering a new party. I don’t think he has enough time to do this before the next election. Building an effective party takes a long time. But if he managed to do it, yes of course it would affect Starmer's chances. I’ve not been a Labour member for a long time now but from a very unscientific focus group, namely Guardian BTL comments, a lot of Labour supporters are deeply unhappy about Starmer's leadership and would need little persuasion to vote for a more traditional socialist alternative. Again, I can’t see it happening so a change of government is still very likely next year, albeit with a lot of people holding their noses to vote for Sir Keir. Most people seem to be voting anti-Tory rather than pro-Labour.
clapham_gull
Legacy Fan
- Aug 20, 2003
- 25,876
Bad sandwiches, marquee didn't turn up etc...
Colonel Mustard
Well-known member
- Jun 18, 2023
- 2,240
I don’t think Sir Keir excites any emotions at all, neither hatred nor love. According to The Times political podcasts that I listen to now and then, focus groups still struggle to know what he stands for, or even who he is. Labour are more popular than the Tories for sure but most people have a low opinion of both Sunak and Starmer as individuals. The LibDem leader is totally anonymous. It’s the most gloomy election in prospect for years. For the first time ever, I really feel I have no one to vote for.
London Irish
Well-known member
I really wish people like you would check your facts. The Labour Left apart from Benn abandoned the call to leave the EU sometime in the 1990s in favour of call to reform its shortcomings. Do you think the EU is perfect? Who but the most ridiculous Remainiac believed that? Most Britons are sceptical of the EU even if they were in favour of staying and it was this audience Corbyn was trying to address. Corbyn wanted more leeway to use government investment to back British industries that EU rules made very difficult - his criticisms were pragmatic.
Before becoming Labour leader, he pledged to work within the EU and in the referendum did more Remain meetings and media appearances than any other Labour politician. When the referendum was lost he then pledged a customs union to get as near as possible to a single market.
Has Starmer done any of this? Nope, he is pledging to keep Boris Johnson’s hard Brexit totally in place, if you vote Labour at the next general election, you are voting again for Boris Brexit. Far from frightening the “Gammons”, Starmer looks to appease them every time. Rachel Reeves told the FT she couldn’t envisage the UK rejoining the single market in the next 50 years.
It’s genuinely hilarious how much old Remain types believe Starmer is still with them even tho his polices are against everything they believe in on Europe. But for them, politics is not about policy, it’s just about vibes, they love a boring guy in a suit. Reminds them of all those unelected Brussels bureaucrats of old
London Irish
Well-known member
He is not planning a new party. This stupid article is published in the Press every 3 months just as a shitstirring exercise.
It’s actually not even decided if he’ll stand again as an Independent, because he’s given his life to the Labour Party and still has many close, dear friends in it. He’s been treated disgracefully by Starmer’s banana republic operation and the argument is the electors should decide whether they want a charge of MP, not Starmer’s anti democratic henchmen. We’ll see, if he stands he probably wins easy as he is massively popular in Islington North. I wish him luck whatever he decides to do
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For different reasons one would hope.
Colonel Mustard
Well-known member
- Jun 18, 2023
- 2,240
Yes. Sunak considered ineffective, Starmer anonymous and uncharismatic. No one has a clue what he really thinks about anything. I suspect this image will change once the manifesto appears and he has something more concrete to present. I think back to Blair who, rightly or not, I liked a lot — and still do to some degree. Prior to 1997 he created this image of optimism and positivity that people really bought into. Starmer so far hasn’t been able to do this. I still think he’ll win the next election but the impetus for the victory will be 'get rid of the Tories' rather than 'Labour has some great ideas'. Though again, perhaps the manifesto will help to really differentiate the two parties. At the moment I’m struggling to understand the difference. I know a lot about the historical differences; it’s the 2024 differences that are much less clear to me.
- Oct 17, 2008
- 14,500
Frankly it would be fantastic for Labour
“Proper” socialism is hugely unpopular. The only places using it now have to keep people in the country by force.
The idea that everything should be equal is fundamentally flawed. If we were supposed to be equal then all us blokes on here would be able to throw darts like Luke Littler, shag like John Holmes and play football like Pascal Gross. As the mighty Mark E Smith once said “socialism- everyone ends up wearing brown trousers and driving a Lada”.
As for Magic Grandpa I doubt he could find his way to Westminster these days, bless his anti semitic boots.
The idea that everything should be equal is fundamentally flawed. If we were supposed to be equal then all us blokes on here would be able to throw darts like Luke Littler, shag like John Holmes and play football like Pascal Gross. As the mighty Mark E Smith once said “socialism- everyone ends up wearing brown trousers and driving a Lada”.
As for Magic Grandpa I doubt he could find his way to Westminster these days, bless his anti semitic boots.
Personally I don’t think Jeremy Corbyn is anti systemic and instead has been an advocate for peace all his his life, I also think he’s an honest MP which appears to be akin to birds teeth in politics.
He suffered terribly at the hands of the right wing press and the right wing of Labour and he wasn’t really equipped to deal with that, his policies were rooted in the 1970’s when many of his political allies and hero’s once held some sway.
In all honesty his time as leader was the last hurrah for the left of British politics at the top table.
He if he wishes and assuming Labour will not allow him back set up a new party but I cannot not see it will have much impact.
Now I am an advocate that everyone should be able to have their voices heard in parliament and maybe If we change to a proprtional system their will be room for all
He suffered terribly at the hands of the right wing press and the right wing of Labour and he wasn’t really equipped to deal with that, his policies were rooted in the 1970’s when many of his political allies and hero’s once held some sway.
In all honesty his time as leader was the last hurrah for the left of British politics at the top table.
He if he wishes and assuming Labour will not allow him back set up a new party but I cannot not see it will have much impact.
Now I am an advocate that everyone should be able to have their voices heard in parliament and maybe If we change to a proprtional system their will be room for all
de la zouch
Well-known member
- Jul 12, 2007
- 572
It seems many of the allegedly antisemite cranks that surrounded him have departed to the Green Party. Corbyn is nothing more than a student politician that through an incredible set of circumstances managed to become party leader.
ROSM
Well-known member
Anybody who campaigned for labour last election will tell you that Corbyn was kryptonite. Seamus Milne was a disaster as a political strategist and comments like our 'friends from hamas and hezbollah' were ill judged.
I am sure corbyn meant well but was steeped in years of protest politics and naive comments and behaviour. I still believe he would have been better than Boris Johnson and current Tory govt.
But i read some of the bitterness from his acolytes now and realise he was a lightning rod for some very nasty individuals and whoever followed him if he had won would have been much worse.
As for Starmer. I actually like him. What he has achieved in less than 4 years has been immense. He may not excite but he doesnt repulse. No party has ever won an election in the uk without winning the centre ground.
I am also old enough to realise that an imperfect labour govt is better than tory one
I am sure corbyn meant well but was steeped in years of protest politics and naive comments and behaviour. I still believe he would have been better than Boris Johnson and current Tory govt.
But i read some of the bitterness from his acolytes now and realise he was a lightning rod for some very nasty individuals and whoever followed him if he had won would have been much worse.
As for Starmer. I actually like him. What he has achieved in less than 4 years has been immense. He may not excite but he doesnt repulse. No party has ever won an election in the uk without winning the centre ground.
I am also old enough to realise that an imperfect labour govt is better than tory one
I am not sure what proper socialism means but Some argue that there has been no completely socialist country that has been successful, only countries that have seen success in adopting socialist policies.
Bolivia is an example of a prosperous socialist country. Bolivia has drastically cut extreme poverty and has the highest GDP growth rate in South America.
Other countries that have adopted and enacted socialist ideas and policies to various degrees, and have seen success in improving their societies by doing so, are Norway, Finland, Sweden, Denmark, Great Britain, Canada, the Netherlands, Spain, Ireland, Belgium, Switzerland, Australia, Japan, and New Zealand.
Democratic Socialism has given the uk its Health Service, Pensions, Paid Holidays, Sick Pay, Reduced working hours, health and safety standards, universal education, social care, disability benefits, unemployment benefits, a national railway system the list goes on.
All while the right of British politics has fault against these public services and even worse has dismantled many of them.
most if not all of these Were provided by a democratic socialist government of the type advocated by Jeremy Corbyn, just saying like.
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Can I point out there already IS a left-wing alternative to Labour? My old lot Socialist Labour, started by Arthur Scargill as a pushback against Blair when he abolished Clause Four. I still call myself a supporter, even though it is a bit like supporting Hartlepool, or maybe Blackpool, as we started off big(ish) but now, like all splinter parties (anyone remember the SDP?), have drifted off into complete irrelevance.
EDIT: And just to continue the football analogy Labour are my 'big' team.
EDIT: And just to continue the football analogy Labour are my 'big' team.
ROSM
Well-known member
Sdp is now extremely right wing
They always were to me!
