"coloured people" Poyet quote....

[Paddy B]

Interesting debate, but one thing I dont agree with is the "I wouldnt mind being called a white ****" statement.

Aside from the fact that that is basically telling black people to "grow a pair" and not be offended (which is insulting in itself) As white middle class englishmen we have not had centuries of represssion and negative judgement based solely on our skin colour.

 

[Gritt23]

no you don't. maybe you're thinking of the time when your family used the word coloured.

i am definitely not a racist. how can i be? some of my best friends are niggers.

Yes, I do, and it certainly wasn't just my family, as you put it. A quick check of an online dictionary throws up the following reference, which is pretty much in line with how I remember it. My family must have been pretty influential if it was just us, don't you think.


Coloured
2. often Coloured South African A person belonging to the Coloured population grouping, especially during apartheid.
Usage Note: As a racial label, colored can simply mean nonwhite, but in the United States its usage has generally been restricted to persons of African descent. Though long a preferred term among Black Americans, it lost favor as the 20th century progressed, and its use today is often taken to be offensive. In South Africa, where it is spelled as in British English and usually written uppercase, Coloured has generally been used to refer to persons of mixed racial descent as opposed to those of unmixed Black African, Asian, or European origin. Its use as an official ethnic label ended when apartheid was dismantled in 1991.

 

[KZNSeagull]

Coloured
2. often Coloured South African A person belonging to the Coloured population grouping, especially during apartheid.
Usage Note: As a racial label, colored can simply mean nonwhite, but in the United States its usage has generally been restricted to persons of African descent. Though long a preferred term among Black Americans, it lost favor as the 20th century progressed, and its use today is often taken to be offensive. In South Africa, where it is spelled as in British English and usually written uppercase, Coloured has generally been used to refer to persons of mixed racial descent as opposed to those of unmixed Black African, Asian, or European origin. Its use as an official ethnic label ended when apartheid was dismantled in 1991.

Coloured was an option on this years census in South Africa in answer to the question “How would (name) describe him/herself in terms of population group?” The options were Black African, Coloured, Indian or Asian, White and Other.

As with any label, some who identify as Black African would be upset at being labelled something else, some who identify as Coloured would be upset at being labelled something else etc etc. I try not to use a label at all - it avoids unnecessary unpleasantness.

 

[John Bumlick]

Yes, I do, and it certainly wasn't just my family, as you put it. A quick check of an online dictionary throws up the following reference, which is pretty much in line with how I remember it. My family must have been pretty influential if it was just us, don't you think.


Coloured
2. often Coloured South African A person belonging to the Coloured population grouping, especially during apartheid.
Usage Note: As a racial label, colored can simply mean nonwhite, but in the United States its usage has generally been restricted to persons of African descent. Though long a preferred term among Black Americans, it lost favor as the 20th century progressed, and its use today is often taken to be offensive. In South Africa, where it is spelled as in British English and usually written uppercase, Coloured has generally been used to refer to persons of mixed racial descent as opposed to those of unmixed Black African, Asian, or European origin. Its use as an official ethnic label ended when apartheid was dismantled in 1991.

alright, doctor who, calm down.

 

[k2bluesky]

John Barnes summed it up perfectly on 5live last night, when he said he wouldn't get any more upset about being called a black c*** than the presenter would if he was called a white c***, just treat the ignorance of the abuser with the contempt it deserves, and he played at a time when abuse was 10x what it is today, he then said if the adjective 'black' is deemed an offence then scottish, scouse, jew etc would all have to be, so we will need a rulebook as thick as a telephone directory as to which adjectives can be used or not - since when did the overpaid, modern day footballers become such sensitive souls.

 

[beorhthelm]

i know im coming in late, but can someone explain why "coloured" is deemed offensive? i thought it was more out of favour, disliked, not actually offensive. Rohan Rickett on the Hansen clanger said "Is this Alan Hansen guy taking the f****** p***?? I'm not coloured? ? ? He is part of the problem when using that word." really? theres zero offense in the context or intent, and very few black people actually are black. im genuinely somewhat confused by the reaction.

as a postscript, is it an overspill from america, where prehaps the term was used with more negative meaning, such as "no colored" seats, buses, etc?

 

[Goldstone Rapper]

i know im coming in late, but can someone explain why "coloured" is deemed offensive? i thought it was more out of favour, disliked, not actually offensive. Rohan Rickett on the Hansen clanger said "Is this Alan Hansen guy taking the f****** p***?? I'm not coloured? ? ? He is part of the problem when using that word." really? theres zero offense in the context or intent, and very few black people actually are black. im genuinely somewhat confused by the reaction.

as a postscript, is it an overspill from america, where prehaps the term was used with more negative meaning, such as "no colored" seats, buses, etc?

'Coloured' started to go out of vogue from the late 1960s onwards, helped on by more and more identifying themselves with 'black'. The Black Power movement was big at the time. It influenced how people identified themselves in the UK as well. Even though it had previously been used as an accepted descriptive term that black people had identified themselves by (the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People exists to this day) the word 'colored' became contaminated over time from how frequently it was used in racial abuse. It changed the meaning from being mainly a descriptive term to a pejorative term.

The whole 'coloured'/'uncoloured' divide began to be recognised as disadvantageous to people very publicly identified as 'coloured' as it carried connotations with being unnatural, artificial, subjective, even perhaps with the implication that people who were 'coloured' were somehow disfigured by their membership to an ethnic or racial group. In contrast, the unspoken term 'uncoloured' (which only exists by implication - no one, not even Alan Hansen talks of 'uncoloured people') helped to present someone as normal, natural, without having any traces of racial or ethnic subjectivity. Some of this may sound overly theoretical. However, I remember how insidious it can be, growing up in the 1980s. thinking as a child that the light pink crayon was simply 'flesh colour' (not the colour of flesh of a specific group) and the brown one was the 'brown skin colour'.

By the way, I have no beef with Alan Hansen. While the term is problematic in some ways, Hansen was clearly using 'coloured' in a descriptive way rather than a demeaning way. No offence was intended and none should be taken.

 

[Chicken Runner61]

Coloureds comes from south Africa where it was a term used to denigrate people who were not black but also not white. By defining them into another group they were telling them they were inferior.

It's a bit like separating the welsh irish and scots from if you want to feel superior. You call someone a welsh c*** as an insult, you use their nationality to separate them from you. You only can do this if you are in an area or country which is associated with your tribal group. Eg calling someone a welsh c*** when in say a pub in Cardiff is not as insulting to the welsh as calling them it a pub in London. It has more of a threat and hidden meaning because it infers you are not wanted there. That's why calling a white person "whitey" in the uk is not normally seen as an insult to people on here. Now if you were called whitey in a bar in cape town......

I think some people on here might think a little different about what is racism if they experienced it in a minority situation outside of the uk.

Using the term coloured is really ignorant in this day and age - virtually everyone knows you shouldnt use it

 

[Chicken Runner61]

I had a few relatives who were called Poms in Aus when they were growing up there. Yes sometimes it was done in a jokey was and good natured but sometimes it was used to isolate you and make you feel inferior and when it was used during a beating or part of humiliation by a whole group of other kids it took on a whole new meaning.

Unless you have suffered racism yourself who are you to define what is an insult?

 

[clapham_gull]

Using the term coloured is really ignorant in this day and age - virtually everyone knows you shouldnt use it

Don't actually agree with that from experience although perhaps it is an exception.

I know someone from an older generation who is as non racist as it is possibly to be. It comes partly from a religious angle (all God's children under the Sun etc..) but also the way they were brought up. I suspect a parent who witnessed something in Germany before the war and also close to Jewish refugees in London during and after.

Quite possibly the most "non racist person" I've ever met since they simply have no understanding of why anyone (in any context) would wish badly upon someone because of the colour of their skin.

I've heard them use the term "coloured" because simply that was the way black people were described when they were growing up. I don't bother to correct them because I actually aspire to have their complete lack of prejudice.

 

[Twinkle Toes]

I'm personally sick to death of all these foreigners comin' over here & questioning our morally superior attitude towards racist terms. If they don't like it, they should bugger off home!

 

[Goldstone Rapper]

I'm personally sick to death of all these foreigners comin' over here & questioning our morally superior attitude towards racist terms. If they don't like it, they should bugger off home!

Exactly! We're the master race when it comes to being anti-racist!

 

[NMH]

Of course I do you idiot. But unless you're black yourself you don't represent any of them.

You mean - unless I'm working as a steward and someone uses racism against a black player....of course you know it's our duty and a rule exercized with pleasure on that occasion. Then I'm representing stewards, good and well behaved fans, the club, social harmony, the FA and myself....as well as that player and his ethnicity. You idiot.

Partrice Evra also allowed a court to judge on his representation, and I doubt they were all black in that court either. So sometimes non-blacks DO represent them in defending their race from being disrespected, actually.

 

[Chicken Runner61]

Don't actually agree with that from experience although perhaps it is an exception.

I know someone from an older generation who is as non racist as it is possibly to be. It comes partly from a religious angle (all God's children under the Sun etc..) but also the way they were brought up. I suspect a parent who witnessed something in Germany before the war and also close to Jewish refugees in London during and after.

Quite possibly the most "non racist person" I've ever met since they simply have no understanding of why anyone (in any context) would wish badly upon someone because of the colour of their skin.

I've heard them use the term "coloured" because simply that was the way black people were described when they were growing up. I don't bother to correct them because I actually aspire to have their complete lack of prejudice.

The difference is in the detail. People were ignorant of lots of things, they used words and phrases you wouldn't use today - that doesn't make them racist.

Calling the french frogs and and Irish micks doesn't make you a racist it depends on how and why you say it, just as much as opening doors for women and calling them love doesn't make you sexist.

 

[Captain Sensible]

Surely it depends on the context. It was announced with Obama, America have their first black president. If its a fact and not derogatory or inferred as a put down is it ok?

On another point, how often do you need to describe someones race by using a colour?

Obama is mixed race. Something the Americans conveniently forgot before he was elected. He is mixed race end of.

 

[Captain Sensible]

This thread is daft as if what LB says is true and the comments were translated from Spanish, then its the translator that said "coloured" not Poyet.
I have a couple of Black mates and Black is the right term, not coloured. Although I agree it was the prefered choice 25years ago, but who said it was ok? Probably not the Black community.
Also this is just a word that has been said, I always think that its in what context you say it. So I see nothing wrong with the Poyet quote and also I think his view that Suarez didn't know that HIS version of the N word wasn't acceptable, is a sensible one. But there is NO WAY...NO WAY the FA or anyone in football could not punish Suarez. They could not have ignored it as the backlash would have been massive. So in football, if you are accused of racism, you will probably be found guilty no matter what, as there has to be a tough stance on it. The reason is that if an accusation goes unpunished, it is jumped upon by PC merchants and certain rights groups that will ignore all the evidence in a bid to discredit the authorities that have done nothing (in their eyes) to help the fight against racism and then inturn that would make the FA racists!
It's confusing, has lost its way and I think the Suarez case has done nothing in the fight against real racism. It has just muddied the water. The case has given the real racists a chance to shout out how anti racism has gone too far and its now unfair and whites are hard done by. An own goal by the FA, common sense has gotten lost and although the kick it out campaign is probably happy with the decision, it could have a reverse effect. I hope not.

 

[Dave the OAP]

Talking about Obama, the black community( another term I find offensive- try saying the white community and you are immediately a racist seemly) became very agitated in the us when he announced he was not black as his descendants were polynesian and therefore not black, but actually yellowish brown.

 

[tedebear]

Indeed - didn't Tiger Woods say something similar about his Asian / Indian heritage..

 

[OzMike]

The whole world is full of coloured people, I consider myself to be coloured as I am not transparent.

 

[brightn'ove]

The whole world is full of coloured people, I consider myself to be coloured as I am not transparent.

Coloured is not synonymous with opaque...