Civil War Brewing in the Ukraine?

[somerset]

Nope..i responded to your post, as you were clearly referring to Afghanistan.
Anyway..back to the Ukraine...

On a roll here,.... yes it wasn't either of you, it was Seagullovergrimsby....... in one of your quotes DIP......... anyway, back to Ukraine.

 

[daveinprague]

Hopefully, its just all talk...and people step back a bit...
Apart from anything else, my mother is now worried about where I live, and driving me nuts
despite explaining just how far away all this is..

Most of the clients at our club, if not all, are pro west....not heard any other views..but obviously, being here already they would be ..and same goes for colleagues at work, but they do concede a lot of the country are, as one described them
a little unfairly 'peasants'....and not wanting to be western so much.

 

[somerset]

Hopefully, its just all talk...and people step back a bit...
Apart from anything else, my mother is now worried about where I live, and driving me nuts
despite explaining just how far away all this is..

I think Putin is trying to flex a muscle or two on the back of the Olympic feel good factor, he is testostorone driven....... Crimea will be a difficult one to resolve, the Russians are NOT bothered about the general welbeing of Russian speakers down there,... they are flapping about the possibility of losing their uninterrupted access to the Med via the 'Black Sea Fleet' and its well established bases,... especially as their huge naval base in Syria is possibly under threat from the rebels in the medium term ( Assad cannot last forever).

 

[Czechmate]

Funding mercenaries in Kiev just like in Syria , the locals who were fighting Assad were gobsmacked at the amount of rich mercenaries fighting alongside them .

 

[Czechmate]

I think Putin is trying to flex a muscle or two on the back of the Olympic feel good factor, he is testostorone driven....... Crimea will be a difficult one to resolve, the Russians are NOT bothered about the general welbeing of Russian speakers down there,... they are flapping about the possibility of losing their uninterrupted access to the Med via the 'Black Sea Fleet' and its well established bases,... especially as their huge naval base in Syria is possibly under threat from the rebels in the medium term ( Assad cannot last forever).

Don't forget the critical gas/oil pipelines that run through Ukraine to Russia , I am sure he wouldn't want to lose control over those , not sure where they are though ?

 

[somerset]

Funding mercenaries in Kiev just like in Syria , the locals who were fighting Assad were gobsmacked at the amount of rich mercenaries fighting alongside them .

Who was,..... Syria was fundementalist organisations,.... and those guys were fighting a bloody jihad to the death,..... rich or not, they were simply fanatics.

..... I think they can be viewed slightly differently to a few anarchists or nationalists who may throw bricks and bottles at the police when confronted, although being on the end of at least 50 'sniper' related killings may have stirred the pot a bit, ratcheting it up a notch or two for the protesters.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Oh well. Russia has given Ukrainian forces in Crimea ( who have been ignoring them so far ) until 3am GMT to surrender or face attack.

Clearly his plan to provoke them into attacking him has failed.

Nice one Putin. Slaughter some young Ukrainian men. Achieves a lot.

 

[somerset]

Don't forget the critical gas/oil pipelines that run through Ukraine to Russia , I am sure he wouldn't want to lose control over those , not sure where they are though ?

Most of Ukraine's gas fields are in the north-east of the country,...... so there could be your main reason for the Russians getting 'bolshy', they may have an eye on those and the outlets on the Crimea.

 

[beorhthelm]

Oh well. Russia has given Ukrainian forces in Crimea ( who have been ignoring them so far ) until 3am GMT to surrender or face attack.

Clearly his plan to provoke them into attacking him has failed.

Nice one Putin. Slaughter some young Ukrainian men. Achieves a lot.

not clever. they've done the right thing, remained in barracks in absence of formal orders to defend/attack the Russian forces. the sensible thing is to recognise this and leave them be, so there's less motivation for the rest of Ukraine to react. Putin seems to want to provoke a conflict after all.

 

[jakarta]

The most important thing to consider is the needs and desires of the people in Crimea. Hopefully the Ukrainian forces will do the right thing and surrender.

The most important thing to consider should be the rights and desires of the people of the Ukraine who don't want Putin and his thugs running things, however they will be let down by the EU and USA so I am sure you are right......

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

The most important thing to consider is the needs and desires of the people in Crimea. Hopefully the Ukrainian forces will do the right thing and surrender.

I hope they do surrender.

I fear some will lay down their lives singing their national anthem as russian troops cut them to pieces.

And then where would we be ?

 

[somerset]

The most important thing to consider is the needs and desires of the people in Crimea. Hopefully the Ukrainian forces will do the right thing and surrender.

So fook the Ukrainians themselves then,...... your comments are nothing more than I would expect,.... how about the needs of the people who are happily Ukrainian, and are happily living in Ukrainian territory but suddenly find a foreign army swanning around the place as if they own it?....

 

[somerset]

The matter of Crimea should be down to the people of Crimea, surely. They shouldn't have their rights ignored just because they are part of a politically flawed sovereign state.

So the complete opposite of your views on Syria then.

 

[hybrid_x]

View attachment 51724

View attachment 51725

 

[vegster]

Unfortunately vegster you only get a one sided view from the BBC , try RT News if you can get it , it is French I think but you get a more independent view , yesterday they had interviewed a man who was at the storming of parliament in Kiev who wanted to get rid off the old president yet he said a lot of the people there were outsiders trying to stir up the situation , 60 americans , 40 germans plus many others form Poland and other countries , just like Syria where locals were saying they were fighting against Assad alongside rich americans and other mercenaries .

Well in that case, I'm right behind Putin's bid to shore up the Ukraine and prevent further bloodshed. Surrounding enemy Ukrainian navy and army barracks provocatively sited in Ukraine, and demanding the surrender of these illegitimate forces by threat of force is the only way to achieve this. The outrage of having these alien capitalist insurrectionists on Russian, er Crimean well actually Ukrainian territory is a huge affront to the legitimate, and, just created separatist democracy of Crimea.

Well I'm on the first plane to Moscow in the morning to show my support.

 

[Stoo82]

Reports of military build-up on the Russian-Ukrainian boarder in the East.

If this is true, Russia knows the West does not want to get involved.

 

[daveinprague]

Thread is interesting in so much as the people on NSC most vociferous about the UK not being in the EU, and some even citiing countries like the UKraine joining being a disaster...want Ukraine in the EU.

 

[mune ni kamome]

The matter of Crimea should be down to the people of Crimea, surely. They shouldn't have their rights ignored just because they are part of a politically flawed sovereign state.

Couldn't you say that about Cornwall?

 

[Dandyman]

Who was,..... Syria was fundementalist organisations,.... and those guys were fighting a bloody jihad to the death,..... rich or not, they were simply fanatics.

..... I think they can be viewed slightly differently to a few anarchists or nationalists who may throw bricks and bottles at the police when confronted, although being on the end of at least 50 'sniper' related killings may have stirred the pot a bit, ratcheting it up a notch or two for the protesters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlKEF5uoU_I



"Nationalists" (actually Neo-Nazi thugs) threatening and intimidating public servants.

 

[somerset]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlKEF5uoU_I



"Nationalists" (actually Neo-Nazi thugs) threatening and intimidating public servants.

Hardly the type of fella to have a quiet pint with that's for sure.... but of course he's hardly wholly representative of the hundreds of thousands of ordinary Kiev protesters.