Civil servants vote for strike ballot over cuts

[PILTDOWN MAN]

My Mum works for the civil service, and she told me that the current government have (illegally) been trying to change the contracts of current workers, and I get the impression the unions/workers are pretty pissed off about that. No private business would ever be able to do that.

Many private businesses do just that. Sign and keep your job, don't sign and be made redundant. Ask many many people employed by the big companies.

 

[beorhthelm]

They might not 'generate wealth for this country' in the way that you interpret it, but they sure as hell never brought about its complete financial collapse either.

no. but the existance of those jobs are the reason for a £140billion deficit. the budget overspending wasnt set by the city, even after the financial crisis, the budget kept on growing.

 

[bhaexpress]

The same wankers that moan about civil servants when they're in work are the same wankers that moan about them 'sponging of state' when the cuts result in them being out of work.

f*** OFF!!

Do you work for the Civil Service by some freak off chance ? The eloquence of your post would seem to suggest that you do. No one is suggesting that Civil Servants 'sponge off the state' any more than anybody else. However a lot of people feel with good reason that the Civil Service is riddled with dead beats who should be on the dole.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

no. but the existance of those jobs are the reason for a £140billion deficit.

Yup, civil servants entirely to blame for that. Throw them all in Strangeways

 

[sten_super]

Interesting point about the 'race to the bottom'. I know it's a could cuckoo assertion but would it not be better for everyone if the private sector lobbied harder for improved conditions rather than decrying the public sector and calling for their pay/benefits/job security to be slashed?

The problem is that the current pensions system in the public sector (which has already largely disappeared in the private sector) is unsustainable. There are some positive private sector reforms, such as the forthcoming introduction of mandatory pensions (here speaks someone who currently has ZERO contributions from his employer), but pensions have to be sustainable in the long run, in the sense that the contributions have to match the returns, and the current public sector scheme doesn't do that (in fact, current contributions are being used to pay the current set of pensioners, with the shortfall made up from the public purse).

I'm not advocating a form of communism but when a company makes a multi-billion pound profit, would it hurt them to chuck £150m back into pension pots for their workers? Or maybe offer them a pay rise?

A lot of firms do this already, unfortunately it's highly targeted - i.e. if you are directly responsible for earning money for your firm you are rewarded accordingly. The rationale behind this is that if you did not pay that individual his/her 'worth', an alternative employer would do. This is what lead to the ridiculous bonus situation amongst a small number of people working in investment banks, while the remainder of the employees of these firms went relatively unrewarded.

 

[Mammoth]

find out how much a typical prevate sector worker gets (assuming they even have a pension), compare, then come back. NHS, Police and Forces pensions are well desevered, but lets not pretend they are not very, very good. civil servant's are arguably undeserved: let them have the option of private sector pay rate and pension, see how many take it up.

So I deserve my armed forces and NHS pensions, but not the civil service one I contributed to?

 

[Hatterlovesbrighton]

I'm a civil servant and I used to be a member of the PCS until I got sick and tired of the ultra left wing leadership trying to use the union as a political plaything.

Actually the majority of civil servants aren't pen pushing bureaucrats, most of them work in Job Centres and Tax Offices across the country. To be honest I don't see why these parts of the civil service shouldn't be privatised.

I count myself very lucky to have the job I do and know that even after the reforms I'll have very good redundancy pay (basically 1 month for every year) and a pretty good pension.

 

[keaton]

I'm a civil servant and I used to be a member of the PCS until I got sick and tired of the ultra left wing leadership trying to use the union as a political plaything.

Actually the majority of civil servants aren't pen pushing bureaucrats, most of them work in Job Centres and Tax Offices across the country. To be honest I don't see why these parts of the civil service shouldn't be privatised.

QUOTE]

Becuase that will lose even more money?

 

[bhaexpress]

Yup, civil servants entirely to blame for that. Throw them all in Strangeways

Don't the inmates have enough to put up with already ? Imagine sharing a cell with a faceless civil servant, death by boredom.

 

[beorhthelm]

Yup, civil servants entirely to blame for that.

pay attention, i didnt say the persons, but the jobs. the persons responsible are Brown and Darling for not reigning in their largese

So I deserve my armed forces and NHS pensions, but not the civil service one I contributed to?

i think thats what i said, yes. depends what the civil service job is, some are worthwhile and necessary, some are a burden, some an outright gravey train. depnds what you contribute too, many dont.

 

[keaton]

pay attention, i didnt say the persons, but the jobs. the persons responsible are Brown and Darling for not reigning in their largese



i think thats what i said, yes. depends what the civil service job is, some are worthwhile and necessary, some are a burden, some an outright gravey train. depnds what you contribute too, many dont.

Which public sector jobs do you not have to contribute to the pension fund?

I reckon of the jobs being cut 95% are jobs that a sensible person would deem worthy or necessary

 

[Pavilionaire]

As an accountant I wouldn't notice if the whole of HM Revenue & Customs went on strike for a week, because everything seems to be done automatically by computer anyway.

And if HMRC gave accountants full acess to the computer records THEY have, rather than the crumbs on the HMRC password-protected bit of their website, we could cut out wasting time with the call centre phone monkeys and the bosses could afford to sack a load more staff. There's plenty of slack in the system if only they'd ask the consumers.

 

[Mammoth]

pay attention, i didnt say the persons, but the jobs. the persons responsible are Brown and Darling for not reigning in their largese



i think thats what i said, yes. depends what the civil service job is, some are worthwhile and necessary, some are a burden, some an outright gravey train. depnds what you contribute too, many dont.

Well the dept i used to work in provided advice to people trying to claim against employers who caused them to contract asbestosis- so they wouldn't have to live on benefits. Judge for yourself whether you think that is worthwhile, but I would love to know just which positions you think are gravey trains- don't think there are many ethnic bisexual disability swimming teachers left (although these would normally be council employees)

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

pay attention, i didnt say the persons, but the jobs. the persons responsible are Brown and Darling for not reigning in their largese.

Would that be the way they took the decision to stimulus spend their way out of the imminent collapse of the Global Economy, a move that was followed by every country that counts the following day? Get down on your knees five times a day and give thanks that they gave a lead. Else you'd be surviving in a cave on nuts and seasonal berries by now.

 

[bhaexpress]

I'm a civil servant and I used to be a member of the PCS until I got sick and tired of the ultra left wing leadership trying to use the union as a political plaything.

Actually the majority of civil servants aren't pen pushing bureaucrats, most of them work in Job Centres and Tax Offices across the country. To be honest I don't see why these parts of the civil service shouldn't be privatised.

I count myself very lucky to have the job I do and know that even after the reforms I'll have very good redundancy pay (basically 1 month for every year) and a pretty good pension.

One of the problems of privatisation is the people who end up doing the outsourcing. For example the Inland Revenue used to be outsourced to EDS, an American firm. This is the same EDS who managed to lose several years of tax returns for thousands of tax payers. Then there's Fujitsu, they used to outsource the NHS, (mainly because Fujitsu absorbed failing UK Computer organisation ICL), they got the elbow for being useless so now they are outsourced to BT. Speaking from first hand experience of both it's a case of out of the frying pan etc. I am not so sure that outsourcing is the answer. I am of the opinion that the rot starts at the top. Too many career Civil Servants living in ivory towers awaiting their fat pensions and early retirement. The real losers are not just the tax payers but also the people who are at the bottom of the Civil Service food chain, you can't blame them for being forced to accept the mindless bureaucracy that has been created by those above them. Having said that they should be brought into line with the private sector, something that is much easier said than done.

 

[Seagull27]

Many private businesses do just that. Sign and keep your job, don't sign and be made redundant. Ask many many people employed by the big companies.

Not if they were doing it illegally, they couldn't, as they would risk being taken to court. Which, from my understanding, is what the unions are planning on doing.

 

[Mammoth]

As an accountant I wouldn't notice if the whole of HM Revenue & Customs went on strike for a week, because everything seems to be done automatically by computer anyway.

And if HMRC gave accountants full acess to the computer records THEY have, rather than the crumbs on the HMRC password-protected bit of their website, we could cut out wasting time with the call centre phone monkeys and the bosses could afford to sack a load more staff. There's plenty of slack in the system if only they'd ask the consumers.

You might have a point, also a flat tax would be good too. Less HMRC staff and less accountants required. Surely a victory for common sense. Let's think this through a little further. A less complex tax regime, less jobs for the accounting and auditing big boys. They employ less staff on lower wages. Also loads of former govt accountants flood the market driving down costs. Hundreds of thousands of accountants on the dole. There can't be many serving or former government employees who would not love to see this reality.

 

[Lokki 7]

Clearly Lokki 7 you are a hermit and do not need to benefit or have never benefited at all from security, healthcare, education, roads or a myriad of other services provided every day by employees of the state. Why else would you be calling these employees 'wankers'?. Are they wankers for worrying if they will have a job in six months? or if they have the budgets to look after old people in the community or fix the roads?

Now this for me sums it up. I think it's wrong for the public sector to be on employment terms last seen in the private sector in the 1960's but this is so offensive to you (I presume you work or have worked in the public sector) that you can't even be bothered to read my post properly. You jump on your oh so high horse and accuse me of calling nurses wankers. Well done red faced you. Read it again and then lets talk about the issues, assuming you are able.

The public sector is bloated, inefficient, over staffed and is not subject to the same rigours that have streamlined the private sector. Without which obviously, there would be no public sector let's not forget.

 

[Lokki 7]

The same wankers that moan about civil servants when they're in work are the same wankers that moan about them 'sponging of state' when the cuts result in them being out of work.

f*** OFF!!

Well to be fair in many cases they are sponging off the state in both instances. Streamline the public sector and I will change my mind. Why shouldn't these people lose their jobs? What divine right do they have to employment that workers in the private sector do not have? If the jobs do not exists, or the tax payer cannot afford them then why are they being paid? The axeman cometh and about time too.

 

[beorhthelm]

Which public sector jobs do you not have to contribute to the pension fund?

many, or token few % while the employer (the public purse) pays 10, 12, 15% contributions.

but I would love to know just which positions you think are gravey trains- don't think there are many ethnic bisexual disability swimming teachers left (although these would normally be council employees)

you know full well what im taking about, or you are blind to the ineffiecencies in the public sector. my missus is in the public sector and she is of the sam opinion, indeed more so as she has to deal with many people who seem to think the organisation owes them a living, try to wangle their "full entitlement" to sick days, shift from full time to part time or vice versa to suit them, moan if they are retired, moan if they arent retired and so on.

Would that be the way they took the decision to stimulus spend their way out of the imminent collapse of the Global Economy, a move that was followed by every country that counts the following day? Get down on your knees five times a day and give thanks that they gave a lead. Else you'd be surviving in a cave on nuts and seasonal berries by now.

you still dont get that the stimulus of the bail out was paid for year one. there was no bail out last year or the year before, we've paid out again years since for excessive spending on public sector - projects that should/could have been canned straight away left cooking away, new initiatives started. arguably some tax revenue didnt come in, but the vast majority of the deficit is due to beliving the boom time wouldnt end and not accepting the need to change.