[Misc] Christians seem to be really good people

[kuzushi]

So you genuinely think that if you had been brought up in a strict Muslim country, you would have eventually found out that Christianity is the truth, and Islam is false?

Funnily enough, I happen to be listening to an audiobook right now about Muslims coming to Jesus.

Yes, people do. It doesn't matter where you are in the world, the world is against the Christian message. Why is the name of Jesus used as a swear word, but not the name of any other religious leader? How can Jesus be deemed the most influential person in history, and yet so many people doubt that he ever really existed? Jesus said that his kingdom is not of this world. You either belong to the world or to Jesus.

In this country people are somehow inoculated against Christianity. It's kind of presented to them in such a way as to diminish it and render it toothless. We see this here, on this thread. I state things as I see them, and people get offended and call me intransigent. How would you like me not to be intransigent? Muslims are very aware of Jesus. He's mentioned many times in the Quran. Both here and in Muslim countries, Jesus is visible, his name is bandied around, but people are discouraged by the wider society from embracing him and following him.

 

[kuzushi]

You still seem to be ignoring me. Therefore, I’m going to draw my own conclusions. I think what you’re saying is that a part of us that can’t be seen is going to a place that can’t be discovered based on whether we believe in something that can’t be materially established. Our dogs may, or may not, be there and no one is sure if there are flowers there, and bees to pollinate them, or if it’s a less earthly place than that. And heaven could be really boring and hell full of people doing gear to AC/DC LPs. Or not.

I'm not ignoring you, if you asked something and I haven't replied it's probably because I've missed it.

 

[Guinness Boy]

I'm not ignoring you, if you asked something and I haven't replied it's probably because I've missed it.

Four times? While responding to all the other posts you were quoted in?

You’re dodging difficult questions. All you have is scripture and Google

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Thanks for your response - much appreciated.

I am intrigued by the fact that billions of people believe in god, in the absence of any evidence other than a holy book that even believers admits is full of myths and fiction.

Is the bible the word of god, or is it the collected myths of Iron Age Mystics? If it’s the word of god, why are there so many errors and contradictions? If it’s myths from Iron Age Mystics, why do we give it so much reverence? It sometimes seems that believers want the best of both worlds. Stuff that has been proven wrong is dismissed as being written by unsophisticated people from a long time ago. But the rest is believed as being true.

Some stories, like creation, the flood and the exodus are understood as a mix of myth and fiction. But stories of the virgin birth and resurrection (which are just as unlikely) are seen as being absolutely true. Even when there is no external evidence, and the multiple biblical stories describing these events are contradictory. If the virgin birth story in Matthew is true, then Luke is false. And vice verse. Unless they are both false. I think a lot of Christians avoid thinking about it and pretend that both are true. Which is dishonest.

You made a comment that I find very strange. “But in terms of the people of Jesus’s time, Moses would probably have been real and not fictional.” I’m not sure what you mean. Moses was either real, or fictional. Whether I was born in 56 CE, or 1956 CE, doesn’t change the truth. Do you mean that they thought Moses was real, while you accept that he was mythical or a fiction?

I’m on holiday and don’t have access to my library, but I thought that in Mark, Jesus said he talked in parables to stop people understanding, not to help them understand. Or did I get that wrong?

Anyway, thanks for your insights.

In terms of Matthew/Luke etc, all the Gospels were written significantly after the event and not from first hand experience, so there will be differences. I am on holiday as well at the moment, so can’t go in to it too deeply at the moment.

on Moses, we know more than they did so yes, I do mean that I/we believe it is myth rather than fact, while people at Jesus’s time would have believed in Moses.

on the parables thing, eeees complicated, as Mr Poyet might say.
surely a story about seed falling on good soil will thrive, while seed falling on stony ground will not is obvious.
but he would always also have been avoiding given the Jewish/Temple authorities at the time reason to arrest him by confusing matters.
but he also never really answered a direct question. He made people/encouraged people to think and work it out for themselves.
but from this it’s probably obvious I have never really thought about this before.

 

[kuzushi]

And yet here you give a one word answer.

I think the one word answer I gave was because someone was pressing and pressing me for that answer. As I recall without going back and combing through all the posts, they had asked me in different ways what would happen to them if they go through life without repenting and submitting to and following Jesus, and I said things such as "Jesus said there's a wide road that leads to destruction and a narrow road that leads to life," but they wanted it in the clearest terms possible. Hence that one word.

Why didn’t you say “your spirit goes to hell”. And what is your spirit?

We are body, mind and spirit. Your spirit is the truest most essential part of you.
Your body is not really you any more than your trousers or shirt are. I see the soul as the part of you that is your consciousness, and it is not something you can touch. You will one day surrender the atoms that make up your body back to the earth. But your soul, the essence of you, will continue. Your soul is eternal. When you look at something, the light enters your eye and strikes the retina, and a signal is sent along the neurons in your brain to your visual cortex. OK, that's the physical side of it, but what is the part of you that "sees." You are not the retina, or the neurons, or the visual cortex. That is all the hardware. How does it differ from a camera connected to a computer? You can have an image enter a camera and be sent to a computer's CPU, but the computer is not "aware" of what it's looking at. It doesn't have an opinion about it. It's not alive. It's purely physical, atoms and electrons. Somehow there is an interface between your body and the part of you that is aware, your consciousness, your soul.

 

[kuzushi]

Four times? While responding to all the other posts you were quoted in?

You’re dodging difficult questions. All you have is scripture and Google

Well I'm sorry. I've responded to you now.

 

[kuzushi]

All you have is scripture and Google

I'm curious. What do you mean by this?

 

[Guinness Boy]

I think the one word answer I gave was because someone was pressing and pressing me for that answer. As I recall without going back and combing through all the posts, they had asked me in different ways what would happen to them if they go through life without repenting and submitting to and following Jesus, and I said things such as "Jesus said there's a wide road that leads to destruction and a narrow road that leads to life," but they wanted it in the clearest terms possible. Hence that one word.


We are body, mind and spirit. Your spirit is the truest most essential part of you.
Your body is not really you any more than your trousers or shirt are. I see the soul as the part of you that is your consciousness, and it is not something you can touch. You will one day surrender the atoms that make up your body back to the earth. But your soul, the essence of you, will continue. Your soul is eternal. When you look at something, the light enters your eye and strikes the retina, and a signal is sent along the neurons in your brain to your visual cortex. OK, that's the physical side of it, but what is the part of you that "sees." You are not the retina, or the neurons, or the visual cortex. That is all the hardware. How does it differ from a camera connected to a computer? You can have an image enter a camera and be sent to a computer's CPU, but the computer is not "aware" of what it's looking at. It doesn't have an opinion about it. It's not alive. It's purely physical, atoms and electrons. Somehow there is an interface between your body and the part of you that is aware, your consciousness, your soul.

There you go again, asserting for definite something that peer reviewed science doesn’t support.

I’d have a lot more respect for you if you just told me this was what you believe. Faith I can handle. Stupidly, I can’t.

NSC has always encouraged free speech and debate but that doesn’t include you using us as a free platform to try and convert people. Make sure you’re aware of that line.

 

[kuzushi]

There you go again, asserting for definite something that peer reviewed science doesn’t support.

I’d have a lot more respect for you if you just told me this was what you believe. Faith I can handle. Stupidly, I can’t.

NSC has always encouraged free speech and debate but that doesn’t include you using us as a free platform to try and convert people. Make sure you’re aware of that line.

What exactly are you objecting to? This is a thread about Christianity.
It's funny how some people get all cross and angry about these things. We've been having an interesting chat about spiritual matters here. I see no reason to start calling people names. You say stuff, I say stuff, back and forth like tennis. Why are you worried about me converting you? That implies that you are finding what I'm saying persuasive. Are you not just as capable of persuading me of your point of view as I am of persuading you of mine? Are you unable to resist what I'm saying?

Yes, I am sure of what I'm saying, and there are reasons for this.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

I'm curious. What do you mean by this?

Problem I have is you have condemned so many to eternal hell, including Jews while stating you don't have a problem with them. You have stated, as fact so much stuff which just isn't fact to the majority. You being so enlightened may see it but that's in your mind only not the rest of us.

My wife wasn't put in the ground but burnt to ashes which now sit surrounding her animals who were also cremated, they are in a large planter with a tree planted above them. As I'm a non believer who are you to tell me, her children, her grandchildren and her family and friends she is now in hell. Someone who dedicated her life to kindness.

That I'm afraid is where I end in posting on this thread.

 

[dangull]

There you go again, asserting for definite something that peer reviewed science doesn’t support.

I’d have a lot more respect for you if you just told me this was what you believe. Faith I can handle. Stupidly, I can’t.

NSC has always encouraged free speech and debate but that doesn’t include you using us as a free platform to try and convert people. Make sure you’re aware of that line.

I disagree. He may look at it at saving people. People have their own minds and can choose to ignore or question as many people have done.

 

[Pretty Plnk Fairy]

I think the one word answer I gave was because someone was pressing and pressing me for that answer. As I recall without going back and combing through all the posts, they had asked me in different ways what would happen to them if they go through life without repenting and submitting to and following Jesus, and I said things such as "Jesus said there's a wide road that leads to destruction and a narrow road that leads to life," but they wanted it in the clearest terms possible. Hence that one word.


We are body, mind and spirit. Your spirit is the truest most essential part of you.
Your body is not really you any more than your trousers or shirt are. I see the soul as the part of you that is your consciousness, and it is not something you can touch. You will one day surrender the atoms that make up your body back to the earth. But your soul, the essence of you, will continue. Your soul is eternal. When you look at something, the light enters your eye and strikes the retina, and a signal is sent along the neurons in your brain to your visual cortex. OK, that's the physical side of it, but what is the part of you that "sees." You are not the retina, or the neurons, or the visual cortex. That is all the hardware. How does it differ from a camera connected to a computer? You can have an image enter a camera and be sent to a computer's CPU, but the computer is not "aware" of what it's looking at. It doesn't have an opinion about it. It's not alive. It's purely physical, atoms and electrons. Somehow there is an interface between your body and the part of you that is aware, your consciousness, your soul.

If my body isnt rearlly part of me does that mean it wasnt my fault after i shat myself last night after two bottles of white lighterning

regards

DF

 

[dangull]

If my body isnt rearlly part of me does that mean it wasnt my fault after i shat myself last night after two bottles of white lighterning

regards

DF

Blimey, he's back.

 

[kuzushi]

If my body isnt rearlly part of me does that mean it wasnt my fault after i shat myself last night after two bottles of white lighterning

regards

DF

You're responsible for what you do with your body. You are in charge of it and you control it, so if that's what you've done, then it's on you.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Blimey, he's back.

Now that is a resurrection. Sorry I did post again but.................

 

[Hugo Rune]

You're responsible for what you do with your body. You are in charge of it and you control it, so if that's what you've done, then it's on you.

Well, it’s better than him windmilling through opposition fans, sending dozens of men, women and children flying in all directions as he has his wicked way with them. This guy is the hardest fella on NSC, one of the most famous and feared football hooligans in the country.

Or at least, that’s what he’d have people believe. Belief - it’s a funny old concept isn’t it!

 

[kuzushi]

Problem I have is you have condemned so many to eternal hell, including Jews while stating you don't have a problem with them. You have stated, as fact so much stuff which just isn't fact to the majority. You being so enlightened may see it but that's in your mind only not the rest of us.

My wife wasn't put in the ground but burnt to ashes which now sit surrounding her animals who were also cremated, they are in a large planter with a tree planted above them. As I'm a non believer who are you to tell me, her children, her grandchildren and her family and friends she is now in hell. Someone who dedicated her life to kindness.

That I'm afraid is where I end in posting on this thread.

I hope you don't leave this thread.
I am sorry if what I am saying is upsetting to you. I am saddened by this post of yours.



What I am saying is not my made up stuff. It's based on the teachings of Jesus, Paul, and the other authors of the New Testament. Others may say I've interpreted it wrong, but I think they are being disingenuous at best.

 

[Triggaaar]

It doesn't matter where you are in the world, the world is against the Christian message.

There are plenty of places that are very Christian and pro the Christian message, so what are you talking about?

Why is the name of Jesus used as a swear word, but not the name of any other religious leader?

Christianity is the main religion of the English speaking world, and we tend to use words as expletives (although Jesus is not actually a swear word). It's nothing particularly against Christianity as opposed to any other religion.

How can Jesus be deemed the most influential person in history

He isn't.

and yet so many people doubt that he ever really existed?

Most people think he did exist.

Jesus said that his kingdom is not of this world. You either belong to the world or to Jesus.

So?

In this country people are somehow inoculated against Christianity.

No, we see plenty of Christian teachings here, our leaders are usually Christian, a lot of our schools are Christian and Christianity is the dominant religion. But people are free to question and agree or disagree with any/all religions if they choose. More and more people are choosing to disagree.

It's kind of presented to them in such a way as to diminish it and render it toothless.

That doesn't make sense - it's presented by Christian leaders in the way they think most fit. Their aim is clearly not to make it toothless.

We see this here, on this thread. I state things as I see them, and people get offended and call me intransigent.

I'm sure most people here aren't offended by you? I haven't found you offensive at all. And I don't expect you to change your beliefs because of a discussion on a forum.

Muslims are very aware of Jesus. He's mentioned many times in the Quran. Both here and in Muslim countries, Jesus is visible, his name is bandied around, but people are discouraged by the wider society from embracing him and following him.

I'm not sure where Muslims fit into your point - they believe he is a prophet, because they used Christianity to help them build support for their new religion. Wider society here (if that's what you're calling us) encourages people to seek the truth, and most people think the truth is that Jesus was not the son of god, and should not be followed. Why would we encourage others to embrace and follow Jesus when we think it's a load of nonsense?

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

I hope you don't leave this thread.
I am sorry if what I am saying is upsetting to you. I am saddened by this post of yours.



What I am saying is not my made up stuff. It's based on the teachings of Jesus, Paul, and the other authors of the New Testament. Others may say I've interpreted it wrong, but I think they are being disingenuous at best.

OK but what is concerning to me is your simple assumption that you are right and happy to say others who don't follow the trinity are condemned. A friend of mine is the Dean of Bristol. He has always been aware of my belief but it has never been conflicted with our friendship. He would often say God will offer forgiveness, he sees all mankind as his children. You appear to offer a much further extreme view. This is without anything but a hand off to a differing argument.

We can go round in circles debating the existence of God there just isn't enough proof at all either way, you fell there is but that is in your mind only no one else. You so far have offered nothing to convince anyone on here.

Many years ago I was involved in "extracting" someone from a cult, wow what a dangerous experience.

 

[kuzushi]

I disagree. He may look at it at saving people. People have their own minds and can choose to ignore or question as many people have done.

People seem to be getting upset at this point in the thread, although all I'm saying is that we have a soul. It seems a weird thing to get upset about. The stuff about hell was quite a way back in the thread, and it was in response to people's quite insistent questioning as I recall. It's not as if I came out ranting about hell. I don't want to upset people, but the gospel is the gospel. If there were no need, Jesus would not have gone through what he did on the cross. He said his blood was for the remission of sins. That's just basic Christianity.