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[Misc] Christians seem to be really good people
- Thread starter Mustafa II
- Start date
Yes, he was part of the team. He was not the director of the overall project:Raymond Rogers - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
"Nuclear physicist Tom D'Muhala headed STURP. Apart from Jackson, Jumper, and Motten the team included thermal chemist Raymond N. Rogers, Ron London, and Roger Morris, all from Los Alamos National Laboratory. Other team members included Don Lynn of the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, biophysicist John Heller, photographers Vern Miller and Barrie Schwortz, optical physicist Sam Pellicori, and electric power experts John D. German and Rudy Dichtl, as well as forensic pathologist Robert Bucklin. STURP included no experts on medieval art, archaeology, or textiles."
I hope you don't go to that ignore button, but I just asked how you know that there is not more to you than your body.
I neither wish to upset you nor make you feel under pressure. It's just that you said the thought of not existing scares you.
Obviously, I believe the essence of the person, the soul, continues forever, but if I didn't believe that, if I believed that you die and that's it, I don't see what there would be to be terrified of. Does the thought of what it was like before you were born terrify you? Presumably it would be the same.
And yet here you give a one word answer.
Why didn’t you say “your spirit goes to hell”. And what is your spirit?
The data they released did not suggest that the shroud is from Jesus's time.
The conclusion of the test was that the sample was fine, and not from a repair:
"The official report of the dating process, written by the people who performed the sampling, states that the sample "came from a single site on the main body of the shroud away from any patches or charred areas."
Mechthild Flury-Lemberg is an expert in the restoration of textiles, who headed the restoration and conservation of the Turin Shroud in 2002. She has rejected the theory of the "invisible reweaving", pointing out that it would be technically impossible to perform such a repair without leaving traces, and that she found no such traces in her study of the shroud"
The fact that one of the team members has received notoriety from claiming that the sample was from a repaired patch does not make it so. Claiming that he was the director of the tests is also not correct.
If the Catholic Church, who have the shroud, had any belief that it was genuinely used for Jesus, they could simply test another part. But they don't believe that.
It's interesting. I've just googled his name, and got this come up:
The Catholic Transcript 24 November 1978 — The Catholic News Archive
The Catholic News Archive
BBassic
I changed this.
- Jul 28, 2011
- 13,036
Nah not really. Before I existed I naturally had no concept of anything at all. Because I didn't exist.
But having had knowledge and experience of life and knowing that one day it will end is scary.
Apologies, I didn't mean to come across so "keep that bible away from me"
Rogers was appointed Director of Chemical Research for the Shroud of Turin Research Project (STURP) in 1978, applying thermal methods to the study of this relic. In recent years, he further researched material relevant to the dating of the Shroud, publishing his findings in Thermochimica Acta.
Raymond Rogers - Wikipedia
You can ask what you like and people are free to answer if they want to.
I don't think the line of questioning is constructive or conducive to a productive conversation.
If there is a God, I don't think he/she would be as dismissive to the other main religions today as the OP.
Jews, muslims, hindu's etc believe in the same God. Even in Christianity there are different branches. Henry the 8th for example starting the church of England
I cant believe a loving God would reject all these people because their scriptures were slightly different to the correct one, whichever one that is.
Jews, muslims, hindu's etc believe in the same God. Even in Christianity there are different branches. Henry the 8th for example starting the church of England
I cant believe a loving God would reject all these people because their scriptures were slightly different to the correct one, whichever one that is.
Blues Guitarist
Well-known member
Only because the Catholic Church wouldn’t let him shag someone (can’t remember the details offhand). How Christian was he?!Even in Christianity there are different branches. Henry the 8th for example starting the church of England
Blues Guitarist
Well-known member
Thanks for your response - much appreciated.
I am intrigued by the fact that billions of people believe in god, in the absence of any evidence other than a holy book that even believers admits is full of myths and fiction.
Is the bible the word of god, or is it the collected myths of Iron Age Mystics? If it’s the word of god, why are there so many errors and contradictions? If it’s myths from Iron Age Mystics, why do we give it so much reverence? It sometimes seems that believers want the best of both worlds. Stuff that has been proven wrong is dismissed as being written by unsophisticated people from a long time ago. But the rest is believed as being true.
Some stories, like creation, the flood and the exodus are understood as a mix of myth and fiction. But stories of the virgin birth and resurrection (which are just as unlikely) are seen as being absolutely true. Even when there is no external evidence, and the multiple biblical stories describing these events are contradictory. If the virgin birth story in Matthew is true, then Luke is false. And vice verse. Unless they are both false. I think a lot of Christians avoid thinking about it and pretend that both are true. Which is dishonest.
You made a comment that I find very strange. “But in terms of the people of Jesus’s time, Moses would probably have been real and not fictional.” I’m not sure what you mean. Moses was either real, or fictional. Whether I was born in 56 CE, or 1956 CE, doesn’t change the truth. Do you mean that they thought Moses was real, while you accept that he was mythical or a fiction?
I’m on holiday and don’t have access to my library, but I thought that in Mark, Jesus said he talked in parables to stop people understanding, not to help them understand. Or did I get that wrong?
Anyway, thanks for your insights.
And he also agreed to the beheading of most of his wives
So you genuinely think that if you had been brought up in a strict Muslim country, you would have eventually found out that Christianity is the truth, and Islam is false?
Based on the fact that Islam says Jesus wasn’t crucified, so the inaccuracy confirms the fallacy of Islam. Yet in the same post you also admit to many inaccuracies in the Bible, but those are OK because you don’t have to take them literally.
It’s for reasons like this that I find religious people absolutely fascinating. Their ability to shape and mould their own favourite group of stories to fit their own personal beliefs and desires and reconfirm everything they hope to be true as facts is amazing. I’d love to be able to do that. Good luck to you.
He was married to a Spanish woman (Catherine of Aragon).
She had in fact been his brother, Arthur's wife previously.
Henry was not set to become king, but Arthur died. So Henry was now first in line to the throne. He married his brother's widow.
She bore him a daughter. Henry wanted a son.
He sought to divorce her, but the Pope refused permission, so Henry left the Catholic church and started his own, the CofE.
Blues Guitarist
Well-known member
Lots of waffle, but no evidence.It's interesting. I've just googled his name, and got this come up:
View attachment 162443
The Catholic Transcript 24 November 1978 — The Catholic News Archive
The Catholic News Archivethecatholicnewsarchive.org
You still seem to be ignoring me. Therefore, I’m going to draw my own conclusions. I think what you’re saying is that a part of us that can’t be seen is going to a place that can’t be discovered based on whether we believe in something that can’t be materially established. Our dogs may, or may not, be there and no one is sure if there are flowers there, and bees to pollinate them, or if it’s a less earthly place than that. And heaven could be really boring and hell full of people doing gear to AC/DC LPs. Or not.
Yes, he wasn't the director of the whole thing, which you impliedRogers was appointed Director of Chemical Research for the Shroud of Turin Research Project (STURP) in 1978, applying thermal methods to the study of this relic. In recent years, he further researched material relevant to the dating of the Shroud, publishing his findings in Thermochimica Acta.
Raymond Rogers - Wikipedia
Blues Guitarist
Well-known member
You are a vicar and I claim my £5.You still seem to be ignoring me. Therefore, I’m going to draw my own conclusions. I think what you’re saying is that a part of us that can’t be seen is going to a place that can’t be discovered based on whether we believe in something that can’t be materially established. Our dogs may, or may not, be there and no one is sure if there are flowers there, and bees to pollinate them, or if it’s a less earthly place than that. And heaven could be really boring and hell full of people doing gear to AC/DC LPs. Or not.
And @kuzushi is an evangelical preacher. Or has been brain washed by one.