Ched Evans

[Herr Tubthumper]

Even if she wasn't quite pissed enough not to consent properly, to me he would still be a scumbag who read a text from a mate saying 'I've got a bird' as an invitation to a threesome/porno shoot, lied his way into a hotel room, fked a drunk teenage girl he didn't know and sneaked out the fire exit leaving her to wake up in her own piss several hours later.

This. Well put. Message to Beach Seagull.....this is the person you're apologising for.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I'm asking you what is your problem? Its a chat forum, I'm fully entitled to express my views on here.

The only problem is that to better inform my understanding of your argument I'd like to know why you doggedly defend Evans day in, day out and seemingly every hour of the day. I don't fully understand your position so I'm asking a simple question which might help me. Context and back ground info can make a big impact on how you receive and perceive information.

 

[Beach Seagull]

The only problem is that to better inform my understanding of your argument I'd like to know why you doggedly defend Evans day in, day out and seemingly every hour of the day. I don't fully understand your position so I'm asking a simple question which might help me. Context and back ground info can make a big impact on how you receive and perceive information.

'Day in day out' eh? I believe I didn't post a single thread on here from Oct 28th until Nov 13th. 'Every hour of the day?' Really? Was I on here at 6pm 7pm 8pm 9pm last night?? Get your facts right.

 

[BensGrandad]

I haven't had a drink tonight but that has confused me. Are you genuinely saying that you think that the majority of women, having drunk just the equivalent of a bottle of wine cannot make a decision about having sex? (I think we all accept that, both men and women, will lose some of their inhibitions when they have had even just one drink but that doesn't mean they are incapable of understanding the decisions they make).

No what I was saying was that after only 1 bottle most women would know whether they want sex or not but in some cases they may be more inclined to say yes than without having consumed alcohol, as you say it makes some lose their inhibitions slightly. I do not think was the case in this particular case. I would think most men have been turned down and bought somd drink to soften the girl up and it has worked due to this losing their inhibitions. I dont usually do this but I like you syndrome.

 

[BensGrandad]

I haven't had a drink tonight but that has confused me. Are you genuinely saying that you think that the majority of women, having drunk just the equivalent of a bottle of wine cannot make a decision about having sex? (I think we all accept that, both men and women, will lose some of their inhibitions when they have had even just one drink but that doesn't mean they are incapable of understanding the decisions they make).

No what I was saying was that after only 1 bottle most women would know whether they want sex or not but in some cases they may be more inclined to say yes than without having consumed alcohol, as you say it makes some lose their inhibitions slightly. I would think most men have been turned down and bought a drink to soften the girl up and it has worked due to this losing their inhibitions. "I dont usually do this but I like you" syndrome. I dont think that this happened in this case, she was obviously past that point.

 

[Acker79]

Surely it depends on varying factors, including body size, whether they'd eaten, how quickly they drink the bottle of wine (is it drunk over several hours, or all done in 30 mins?), individual tolerance, quality of the wine (my worst hangover was after just two glasses of house wine at the greyhound stadium, way worse than when I drank almost an entire bottle of vodka over a late afternoon/evening, or the numerous times I have mixed drinks over the course of an evening).

 

[BensGrandad]

It also depends on your mood. Many times after a row with missus have hit the bottle or gone to a number of pubs and it has had no affect on me but similarly we have been out enjoying ourselves and drunk a lot less and felt squiffy. I am sure that is true of most people.

 

[symyjym]

This case wasn't just about judging her on that evening, it was about the way she was manipulated into a situation for the intent of one purpose, and that night she was only used as an object and not seen as a person. Evans had an overwhelming desire to exploit someone who was clearly intoxicated, and that is dangerous territory.

She didn’t give consent to being filmed, but she still was, so why would we believe that she consented to anything else. They were clearly playing games with her that evening so Evans cannot claim the moral high ground, or now play the innocent victim.

 

[drew]

This case wasn't just about judging her on that evening, it was about the way she was manipulated into a situation for the intent of one purpose, and that night she was only used as an object and not seen as a person. Evans had an overwhelming desire to exploit someone who was clearly intoxicated, and that is dangerous territory.

She didn’t give consent to being filmed, but she still was, so why would we believe that she consented to anything else. They were clearly playing games with her that evening so Evans cannot claim the moral high ground, or now play the innocent victim.

When you say she was manipulated, how does that tally with the evidence given that she went up to McDonald, asked where he was going and when he said a hotel, she said she was going with him.

Also, not sure there is logic in your comments about consent. Don't think anyone has ever suggested she consented to being filmed but why do you believe that that automatically precludes her from consenting to sex with Evans?

 

[Beach Seagull]

That's right and trying to muddy the waters with comparisons to other crimes is utterly pointless as it won't whitewash the fact that Evans RAPED a defenceless girl and decent people won't go and cheer on a person like that.

Not muddying the waters am making a fair point.

Funny how Plymouth fans managed to 'cheer on' a guy who was convicted of killing two children. I'm fairly certain that 'decent people' will have cheered Lee Hughes's goals for Oldham and Notts County as well. In my opinion the crimes they committed were far worse than the crime CE was convicted of and yet they've been allowed to play again.

 

[symyjym]

When you say she was manipulated, how does that tally with the evidence given that she went up to McDonald, asked where he was going and when he said a hotel, she said she was going with him.

Also, not sure there is logic in your comments about consent. Don't think anyone has ever suggested she consented to being filmed but why do you believe that that automatically precludes her from consenting to sex with Evans?

McDonald wasn’t convicted of rape.

So by your logic if a mate of yours gets off with someone, it automatically precludes an entitlement to have a go yourself, because she consented in the first instance

Secretly filming someone during sex is devious in its own right and it doesn’t take a lot of imagination to understand how the evening progressed. The whole evening was trivialised into a game at someone else’s expense.

Don’t you think that giving oral sex to someone after another man has been there is also a little odd? I mean where do you draw the line, because it sounded like anything goes, and nothing really mattered at the time.

 

[Hillian1]

When you say she was manipulated, how does that tally with the evidence given that she went up to McDonald, asked where he was going and when he said a hotel, she said she was going with him.

Also, not sure there is logic in your comments about consent. Don't think anyone has ever suggested she consented to being filmed but why do you believe that that automatically precludes her from consenting to sex with Evans?

You really are a sick individual Drew.

Convicted Rapist Ched Evans apologist.

 

[Hillian1]

McDonald wasn’t convicted of rape.

So by your logic if a mate of yours gets off with someone, it automatically precludes an entitlement to have a go yourself, because she consented in the first instance

Secretly filming someone during sex is devious in its own right and it doesn’t take a lot of imagination to understand how the evening progressed. The whole evening was trivialised into a game at someone else’s expense.

Don’t you think that giving oral sex to someone after another man has been there is also a little odd? I mean where do you draw the line, because it sounded like anything goes, and nothing really mattered at the time.

He hasn't read, because he can't be allowed to be wrong on the internet, the link I posted.

Sad rapist apologist that he is.

 

[drew]

McDonald wasn’t convicted of rape.

So by your logic if a mate of yours gets off with someone, it automatically precludes an entitlement to have a go yourself, because she consented in the first instance

Secretly filming someone during sex is devious in its own right and it doesn’t take a lot of imagination to understand how the evening progressed. The whole evening was trivialised into a game at someone else’s expense.

Don’t you think that giving oral sex to someone after another man has been there is also a little odd? I mean where do you draw the line, because it sounded like anything goes, and nothing really mattered at the time.

I never said McDonald did rape her. I was countering the impression you created that she was a sweet little innocent girl. She went back to a hotel for sex with a total stranger. To be honest, you know nothing about the character of the girl in this instance as evidence about her character was not brought up in the trial. Not sure how you arrive at your suggestion about my logic. No where have I said anything of the sort or implied that. As for the filming, I agree that is despicable but as far as I'm aware there was no evidence presented that that was actually arranged or requested by Evans. As for your last paragraph, I agree that it isn't something that appeals to me but the world is full of people that have different 'tastes'.

 

[drew]

You really are a sick individual Drew.

Convicted Rapist Ched Evans apologist.

I don't get your problem, unless of course you were in the room and witnessed everything that went on and know for sure it was rape. I did read the link you posted so perhaps you can identify the problem. It doesn't matter what acts they got up to in the hotel room, the only question is whether it was consensual. If it was consensual, as Evans claims, then there is no crime, if it wasn't then I agree it was rape. I have never said I know he is innocent, just that there is plenty of doubt that she was as drunk as she claims.

But you carry on with insults if it helps you sleep at night.

 

[Hillian1]

I don't get your problem, unless of course you were in the room and witnessed everything that went on and know for sure it was rape. I did read the link you posted so perhaps you can identify the problem. It doesn't matter what acts they got up to in the hotel room, the only question is whether it was consensual. If it was consensual, as Evans claims, then there is no crime, if it wasn't then I agree it was rape. I have never said I know he is innocent, just that there is plenty of doubt that she was as drunk as she claims.

But you carry on with insults if it helps you sleep at night.

I will carry on with saying what I believe, that you and the other poster on here are Rapist Apologists.

That's not an insult Drew, that's just pointing out to others what your belief is.

You seem to know more than the court was told and the the Jury.

Fair play to you,

 

[Questions]

So we don't reckon this Ched Evans is going to be seen wearing a 'This is what a feminist looks like ' tee shirt anytime soon then.

 

[drew]

I will carry on with saying what I believe, that you and the other poster on here are Rapist Apologists.

That's not an insult Drew, that's just pointing out to others what your belief is.

You seem to know more than the court was told and the the Jury.

Fair play to you,

Simple question then. In the video of the girl walking through the foyer of the hotel, in your opinion, does she look like someone who is so drunk she is likely to be unable to remember anything? It's not the greatest of videos but you can still form an opinion.

 

[aolstudios]

Simple question then. In the video of the girl walking through the foyer of the hotel, in your opinion, does she look like someone who is so drunk she is likely to be unable to remember anything? It's not the greatest of videos but you can still form an opinion.

The judge & the jury unanimously formed an opinion based on all the evidence. Which was looked at again when they twice refused an appeal. You really are desperately keen to discredit her, aren't you?

 

[Hillian1]

Simple question then. In the video of the girl walking through the foyer of the hotel, in your opinion, does she look like someone who is so drunk she is likely to be unable to remember anything? It's not the greatest of videos but you can still form an opinion.

I have no idea what this girl was thinking or feeling at that point Drew, do you?

It's like you feel sorry that convicted rapist Ched Evans is being taken to task over it.