Ched Evans

[nwgull]

Look, you don't believe the girl's testimony. The jury, who had access to all the evidence did. Accept that. One video is not all the evidence. Could you see her eyes? Hear any slurred speech? Are you able to fully assess her condition from the video, or how the alcohol affected her for the duration of the evening? Was that on the video?

You're correct, one video isn't all the evidence; there was an independent toxicology report done based on a blood test taken at lunchtime the day after (when she went to the police), which estimated that she'd have been 2.5 times the drink drive limit at the time she entered the hotel - drunk but not paralytic.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

2.5 times the drink drive limit would suggest she had a bottle of wine worth of alcohol in her system, yes?

 

[nwgull]

2.5 times the drink drive limit would suggest she had a bottle of wine worth of alcohol in her system, yes?

It equates to about 10 units for an average bloke and 7-8 units for a women. A 175 ml glass of wine is 2 units, so yes, best part of a bottle of wine.

 

[Hillian1]

https://www.crimeline.info/uploads/cases/2012ewcacrim2559.rtf

Just in case anyone wants to know the courts ruling and why.

Argue against this if you want, but as stated before I'll go with our legal system.

Did I spell everything correctly Drew?

I know how much that means to you

 

[Bold Seagull]

You're correct, one video isn't all the evidence; there was an independent toxicology report done based on a blood test taken at lunchtime the day after (when she went to the police), which estimated that she'd have been 2.5 times the drink drive limit at the time she entered the hotel - which might indicate drunk but not paralytic.

You used the word 'estimated', great that is exactly what it is. In forensic science the digestive processes are extremely hard to gauge. From person to person the metabolic rate can be very different. So it is important at the end of your post to acknowledge that I think. This 2.5 times is an estimate, not a fact. Nor is the conclusion that she was drunk not paralytic a fact, that is an inference from the CCTV and a toxicology report some 12 hours later.

I've walked home and woken up the next day no idea how I got home, no memory of the kebab left on the kitchen table. I bet I passed a lot of CCTV cameras where I probably just looked a normal half pissed bloke on his way home. I've also had nights, especially if I've done some sport and not eaten where I can be pretty legless on 5 or 6 pints. Bu other nights, I might have 8 or 9 and not feel as drunk. The way alcohol works, the way its digested and the way it hits the brain are very difficult things to quantify or gauge from person to person.

 

[BadFish]

Yes. I dont have a problem with Evans trying to resume his career. It would be up to the club how they intergrated him into PR roles, I would imagine relatively slowly. I dont understand why it appears he is being singled out because of his profession. What is it you want him to do? Is it not ok for any person convicted of any crime once released from prison to try to rebuild their lives and working is a significant step in doing that.

Nobody is saying that he can't work though are they. People are just questioning the morality of allowing him to continue a high profile career as a footballer and role model. There are plenty of other jobs he can do that won't cause the same controversy as recommencing his career as a professional footballer.

 

[nwgull]

You used the word 'estimated', great that is exactly what it is. In forensic science the digestive processes are extremely hard to gauge. From person to person the metabolic rate can be very different. So it is important at the end of your post to acknowledge that I think. This 2.5 times is an estimate, not a fact. Nor is the conclusion that she was drunk not paralytic a fact, that is an inference from the CCTV and a toxicology report some 12 hours later.

I've walked home and woken up the next day no idea how I got home, no memory of the kebab left on the kitchen table. I bet I passed a lot of CCTV cameras where I probably just looked a normal half pissed bloke on his way home. I've also had nights, especially if I've done some sport and not eaten where I can be pretty legless on 5 or 6 pints. Bu other nights, I might have 8 or 9 and not feel as drunk. The way alcohol works, the way its digested and the way it hits the brain are very difficult things to quantify or gauge from person to person.

Remind me where the burden of proof lies in the UK legal system.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Remind me where the burden of proof lies in the UK legal system.

Oh are we playing a game of answering with a question?

 

[Hillian1]

Oh are we playing a game of answering with a question?

Yes.

Answer it.

 

[BadFish]

Don't they? Was just watching Plymouth v Portsmouth and the crowd (no doubt including many families) were in raptures at the 3-0 victory for Plymouth, aided and abetted by Luke McCormick whose actions resulted in the death of 2 young children. If that can be forgiven then surely rape can?

The point is that Ched Evans will not be forgiven until the case is resolved. While he is still protesting his innocence there is still doubt about what happened. If he wants forgiveness then he must resolve this either by successfully appealing or by accepting the verdict, apologising and making effort to make amends.

I think the point about the others you have mentioned proves is that people can be very forgiving if things are handled in the right way.

This case is far from being concluded...... Perhaps he should stay away from football until it is.

 

[Kaiser_Soze]

And you think there are elements of doubt because he says he didn't do it? Because you think she was asking for it?

Perhaps after the case has been to review and the guilty verdict is upheld you'll be back on here to admit you got it wrong. Will that be enough?

The jury came to an opinion based on the evidence they were presented with. It's not some subjective opinion based on whether they liked the cut of his gib.

Unlike Gill Dando and the Birmingham six there was no pressure on the Police or CPS to get a conviction. There were no political pressures involved here. Very different cases. You can see that.

Either way, I'm not about to start assuming that every conviction via the courts could be a miscarriage of justice just because the perpetrator claims they are innocent.

Come on now, be reasonable.

I would beg to differ about political pressure. Successive Home Secretaries have said that rape convictions are too low and they were looking at ways to raise the conviction rates. There has also been changes in recent years around ability to consent whilst under the influence of drink or drugs.

 

[tewksburygull]

Top striker but a controversial character. Sign him up but with a casteation rider

 

[drew]

2.5 times the drink drive limit would suggest she had a bottle of wine worth of alcohol in her system, yes?

Which begs the question, how many women do you, or any of us, know who wouldn't be able to make a decision about having sex after one bottle of wine?

 

[BensGrandad]

Which begs the question, how many women do you, or any of us, know who wouldn't be able to make a decision about having sex after one bottle of wine?

I would think the vast majority but unfortunately a number may say yes easier or perhaps quicker than with having consumed no alcohol.

 

[drew]

I would think the vast majority but unfortunately a number may say yes easier or perhaps quicker than with having consumed no alcohol.

I haven't had a drink tonight but that has confused me. Are you genuinely saying that you think that the majority of women, having drunk just the equivalent of a bottle of wine cannot make a decision about having sex? (I think we all accept that, both men and women, will lose some of their inhibitions when they have had even just one drink but that doesn't mean they are incapable of understanding the decisions they make).

 

[Beach Seagull]

im asking you why you do this.

I'm asking you what is your problem? Its a chat forum, I'm fully entitled to express my views on here.

 

[dazzer6666]

I haven't had a drink tonight but that has confused me. Are you genuinely saying that you think that the majority of women, having drunk just the equivalent of a bottle of wine cannot make a decision about having sex? (I think we all accept that, both men and women, will lose some of their inhibitions when they have had even just one drink but that doesn't mean they are incapable of understanding the decisions they make).

Agreed, would think for most people there is a big gap between 'a bottle', and the amount needed to be unable to make a rational decision.

 

[Hillian1]

Even if she wasn't quite pissed enough not to consent properly, to me he would still be a scumbag who read a text from a mate saying 'I've got a bird' as an invitation to a threesome/porno shoot, lied his way into a hotel room, fked a drunk teenage girl he didn't know and sneaked out the fire exit leaving her to wake up in her own piss several hours later.

 

[Hamilton]

Even if she wasn't quite pissed enough not to consent properly, to me he would still be a scumbag who read a text from a mate saying 'I've got a bird' as an invitation to a threesome/porno shoot, lied his way into a hotel room, fked a drunk teenage girl he didn't know and sneaked out the fire exit leaving her to wake up in her own piss several hours later.

Agreed 100%.

And just to reiterate, testimony and evidence does suggest she was intoxicated, and the judge even emphasized this in his summation.

 

[dazzer6666]

Even if she wasn't quite pissed enough not to consent properly, to me he would still be a scumbag who read a text from a mate saying 'I've got a bird' as an invitation to a threesome/porno shoot, lied his way into a hotel room, fked a drunk teenage girl he didn't know and sneaked out the fire exit leaving her to wake up in her own piss several hours later.

Agreed.....