Ched Evans

[Barry Stir]

Consent has two strands; either the jury believed that she did consent or they felt that McDonald had a reasonable belief in her consent. Probably taking into account that it was with him that she willingly returned to the hotel. His belief in her consent is completely different to that of Evans.

 

[Kaiser_Soze]

He should apologise for his behaviour, and show remorse, because if he had a shred of decency he would recognise that his actions were horrible.

If he was to apologise for his behaviour, it could be used against him in any future legal proceedings. I take your point that he could apologise for his general behaviour, however if I'd spent 2 and a half years banged up for something i didn't believe I did, I wouldn't be quick to apologise either.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

The girl remembers neither. She did not make a complaint to the police regarding any sexual activity either. The police only got involved because she thought her handbag had been stolen and that her drink might have been spiked.

As it turns out she'd left her handbag in the kebab shop and tests showed that she hadn't been drugged. The charge of rape only arose because the two accused mentioned having sex with her when questioned about how she'd ended up in the Premier Inn.

Whether or not I approve of the accused's activities in that room is irrelevant but it strikes me that if they believed they'd done anything wrong they wouldn't have been so open in their statements and there would never have been an accusation of rape.

Well this is the whole crux of the issue, isn't it? I don't think Ched Evans is lying when he says he is innocent, I believe that he genuinely thinks he is. That doesn't mean that he's right, though. He took advantage, of a girl, in no state to make decisions (in such a state that she lost her bag and didn't notice until the morning) to satisfy his own selfish urges. He doesn't think that constitutes rape though - so in his mind he's innocent. 12 of his peers have heard all the evidence and disagree.

 

[Barry Stir]

Precisely. Evans and his entire supporters group have failed to grasp that the issue is whether his belief was reasonable. In circumstances where the victim was too intoxicated to have the capacity to make a decision, the jury rejected his version. The considerations for his co-defendant were markedly different and to conflate the issues in the respective cases demonstrates why they will never understand how one man can be acquitted and one convicted. He has exhausted two avenues of appeal only the review by the CCRC left.....

 

[Kosh]

So [MENTION=12486]Husty[/MENTION] you disagree with the sentiment of one of my sane and lucid messages herein to the extent you thumb me down hmmmmmm?!? if You want to make a similarly well thought out and considered reply then do it, don't hide behind childlike thumbs especially in a debate of this nature. Utterly pathetic in my eyes, how can anyone disagree with to that extent what I was saying there?!? that you thumb it down and offer no riposte?!? Behave like an adult; the thumbs down button isn't really relevant when a poster is presenting a set of reasonable comments - yet if your judgement is clouded by the fact you deem me to be an a r s e, I would imagine your only real retort is to press the button and move on. I'd be embarrassed if I were you - hence I've made a point of highlighting it. Note other posters arguing the counterpoint, have done it in an adult and responsible way, not resorting to the 'thumbs down' which should be reserved for the inane or ridiculous.

Kosh

 

[SAC]

Urgh. PC Brigade, being a ridiculous term anyway, should be used nowhere near rape.

It seems that to be in the PC Brigade who need to think rape is unacceptable. Count me in then.

 

[Kosh]

She got in a cab with someone she had only just met with the purpose of having sex! Welcome to the 21st Century, equality and all that!!!!

OMG! Listen I'm 33, and I am very much a 21st century man - nah I'm sorry but the age of chivalry is far from dead at Kosh towers. Obviously I'm out of my depth here, by this I mean the water's too shallow, I'd prefer to swim away, alas I've got to wade through this kind of dirge to find an escape.

 

[Barry Stir]

....she did not get in a cab with Evans. He responded to a text from McDonald saying 'I've got a bird' and went to the hotel with two others who filmed Evans' first involvement from a viewpoint outside the bedroom window. I don't think her decision to go back in a taxi with one man, entitles another man to think he has a transferred consent.

 

[BensGrandad]

He should apologise for his behaviour, and show remorse, because if he had a shred of decency he would recognise that his actions were horrible.

That will not happen as it would be seen as an admission of guilt and another appeal is in place, that would jeopardise that.

Why would he apologise for something he maintains he hasn't done?

 

[JCL - the new kid in town]

Amazing how she was able to make the 'sensible choice' to have sex with McDonald but her ability to make 'sensible choices' had deserted her by the time Evans arrived. I believe she made a choice to have sex with Evans and then cried 'rape' when she smelt the compensation. Also the two people watching hardly constitutes a 'gang.' Why does me agreeing with Evans 'speak volumes' about my character? I realise me thinking the case is a miscarriage of justice has upset the PC brigade on here to the extent that I was referred to as a 'james hunt' by one brave soul in my 'notifications. Correct me if I'm wrong but the Plymouth GK McCormick who killed 2 people when drunk behind the wheel didn't face the same vitroil as CE, but that is 'modern Britain' for you when certain crimes will rile the PC brigade more than others.

Agree with this. He alleges he had consensual sex with someone he hadn't met before. Is that something that is very rare? Have a look at a few of these club 18-30 documentaries and it may seem quiet common within a certain sector of society! I'm not condoning what he did but he didn't beat her up, he didn't sleep with a kid. Might not be to our standards of behaviour but not sure I would describe it as vile (again, assuming that everything was consensual).

Its not quite as straightforward as her being promiscous though is it. How common is it for people to turn up where their mates are having sex with a girl and invite themselves in? He admitted he persuaded the porter to give him access to the room, thats a bit dubious. She went to the hotel with Mcdonald so there's inferred consent however she may have felt pressured/vunerable when another guy turns up in the hotel room with no warning at 4am?

 

[Bold Seagull]

That will not happen as it would be seen as an admission of guilt and another appeal is in place, that would jeopardise that.

Why would he apologise for something he maintains he hasn't done?

He could apologise and show remorse for all the behaviour he has admitted to in court in his own defence. That is bad enough whether he thought he had consent or not.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

I don't have children so I can't comment.

I'd respectfully suggest that your stance on this matter would be markedly different if you did have kids.

 

[lawros left foot]

Well this is the whole crux of the issue, isn't it? I don't think Ched Evans is lying when he says he is innocent, I believe that he genuinely thinks he is. That doesn't mean that he's right, though. He took advantage, of a girl, in no state to make decisions (in such a state that she lost her bag and didn't notice until the morning) to satisfy his own selfish urges. He doesn't think that constitutes rape though - so in his mind he's innocent. 12 of his peers have heard all the evidence and disagree.

She realised she had lost her bag when she got back to the hotel as Mcdonald try to stop the cab as it drove off to retrieve it, she thought it was in the cab

 

[Bold Seagull]

She realised she had lost her bag when she got back to the hotel as Mcdonald try to stop the cab as it drove off to retrieve it, she thought it was in the cab

That was in McDonald's evidence wasn't it - we only know that might have happened through his testimony.

 

[nwgull]

I'd respectfully suggest that your stance on this matter would be markedly different if you did have kids.

This case has sweet FA to do with kids; both the convicted and the victim are adults.

I always think that that is one of the most ignorant and arrogant statements that parents make: that they somehow are more intelligent, experienced in all aspects of life and have a morale high round, just because they have kids.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

This case has sweet FA to do with kids; both the convicted and the victim are adults.

The victim is still somebody's kid.

 

[JCL - the new kid in town]

I always think that that is one of the most ignorant and arrogant statements that parents make: that they somehow are more intelligent, experienced in all aspects of life and have a morale high round, just because they have kids.

But we are, you obviously haven't got kids as you haven't achieved this superior status.

 

[lawros left foot]

That was in McDonald's evidence wasn't it - we only know that might have happened through his testimony.

And the cctv at the hotel that shows him running out after the cab,and the girl following, and then thm both coming back, her realising she has left a pizza on the pavement, and bending down to pick it up, and then walking back into the lobby.

 

[keaton]

? Amazing isn't it how the 'victim' remembers consenting to sex with McDonald but can't remember consenting to sex with Evans. Sounds like strong grounds for an appeal to me.

Apart from that's not what happened, so you're happy to comment and suspect wrong-doing without having a clue what was presented in court.

 

[Beach Seagull]

The following deleted tweets from the 'victim' say it all really:

Remind me never to tell [MENTION=29649]xXxXx[/MENTION]XX when I win big!..... She’s going to kill me! #scaredformylife! Haha!’

[MENTION=29649]xXxXx[/MENTION]XX I will get us matching pink Mini Coopers! Haha! Just seen them pictures on Facebook, I forgot bout XXXXXXX! Haha! X’

[MENTION=29649]xXxXx[/MENTION]XX I’ll make all your dreams come true XXXXXXX haha.’

[MENTION=29649]xXxXx[/MENTION]XX aww,well obvs I’d treat us to an amazing holiday x’.