Ched Evans

[mwrpoole]

As I said, nobody comes out of it with any credit.. I watched the cctv of the victim going into the hotel, she doesn't look that drunk, it may be deceptive though, the fact she made tweets to friends about what she would do with the compo, and then deleted them, and denied ever sending them,even though it was proved she had. I just think if Evans hadn't been a pro fiotballer it would never have made court, the evidence to me wasnt compelling.

In the case summary referred to a few pages back, it says she woke at 11.30am, naked in the hotel room, confused and referred the matter to the police. A Dr took various samples and no trace of alcohol was found. Doesn't say when these were taken, but she was drinking vodka to 3am so I would have thought if she'd had that much to drink she would have had traces of alcohol in her blood for at least 12 hours, if not longer. Traces of cannabis & cocaine from a few days earlier were found though.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I never said it had anything to do with wealth.

Many people love football. Many people pay to watch it, many pay a lot to play it themselves, many volunteers give up their free time to make games happen, keeping local clubs afloat. It is something that is loved. I seem to remember it was once referred to as our national game. Therefore to earn your living from it, whether an average salary from the Conference, or the riches of the Premier League it is a privilege.

I fail to see how that concept is hard to grasp.

People love going to restaurants but a convicted child rapist has been given a job as a chef. Is that a similar circumstance?

 

[Bold Seagull]

People love going to restaurants but a convicted child rapist has been given a job as a chef. Is that a similar circumstance?

I could break this analogy down into tiny parts and spell out for you in terms you might grasp, but frankly I can't be arsed.

 

[lawros left foot]

I just think the FA and PFA need to work out what they are doing with a players code of conduct.

Like many other professions and trades, if you break that code of conduct, you can be excluded from that profession, struck off the register. Football has a right to protect it's integrity and reputation. If you sign up to their code of behaviour, then every part of your life should stand up to that scrutiny. No excuses, you represent the game whether 4am in the morning in a town centre nightclub, or 3pm on a Saturday afternoon.

Should the game really be allowing convicted rapists, murderers, drink drivers back in?

There are many other trades and professions where Evans would not be allowed to walk straight back in. They protect their integrity and reputation. From fireman, to doctors, to teachers, to architects, to accountants - they'd be struck off. I don't understand why football doesn't do the same.

I do for the most part agree, however, a very small percentage of young men have the talent to become professional footballers, and as a consequence they are in high demand, and Ched Evans is a good player, the same as Hughes, Barton, and McCormack. If there was a surfeit of young men who had the skill, and application to be good players, the bad boys would never pull on a shirt again, unfortunately, some team with a lack of morals, and a position for one of these players, will sign them because, in the end, they get less grief from their support, the press etc, for having a criminal in their team, than they would if they were relegated. If we were offered Evans, and he could make the difference etween play off losers and automatic promotion to the Premier League, a lot of our support would snap his hand off. Personally, I wouldn't want him at my club even though I am not convinced of his guilt,as I do understand that it would split our support.
I also don't give any credence to the role model argument, if a parent needs footballers to be role models for their kids, they are doing something drastically wrong.

 

[lawros left foot]

In the case summary referred to a few pages back, it says she woke at 11.30am, naked in the hotel room, confused and referred the matter to the police. A Dr took various samples and no trace of alcohol was found. Doesn't say when these were taken, but she was drinking vodka to 3am so I would have thought if she'd had that much to drink she would have had traces of alcohol in her blood for at least 12 hours, if not longer. Traces of cannabis & cocaine from a few days earlier were found though.

I don't think she went to the Police until after her shift at work, about 9.00 pm, so she wouldn't have alcohol still in her blood

 

[Bold Seagull]

I do for the most part agree, however, a very small percentage of young men have the talent to become professional footballers, and as a consequence they are in high demand, and Ched Evans is a good player, the same as Hughes, Barton, and McCormack. If there was a surfeit of young men who had the skill, and application to be good players, the bad boys would never pull on a shirt again, unfortunately, some team with a lack of morals, and a position for one of these players, will sign them because, in the end, they get less grief from their support, the press etc, for having a criminal in their team, than they would if they were relegated. If we were offered Evans, and he could make the difference etween play off losers and automatic promotion to the Premier League, a lot of our support would snap his hand off. Personally, I wouldn't want him at my club even though I am not convinced of his guilt,as I do understand that it would split our support.
I also don't give any credence to the role model argument, if a parent needs footballers to be role models for their kids, they are doing drastically wrong.

I'm not talking about the teams - I'm talking about the FA and PFA. These are the custodians of the game. They control who plays and who doesn't. It shouldn't even be remotely in the hands of a club to decided.

I've deliberately not used the term role model. I specifically said 'upholding the integrity and reputation of the game' - which I think has a different meaning, and it is the same terms many other professional bodies use. If you kill 2 kids aged 8 and 10 because you got drunk at a friends wedding and drove yourself home, or you rape someone, then that has gone far beyond what it means to be a role model anyway.

 

[lawros left foot]

I'm not talking about the teams - I'm talking about the FA and PFA. These are the custodians of the game. They control who plays and who doesn't. It shouldn't even be remotely in the hands of a club to decided.

I've deliberately not used the term role model. I specifically said 'upholding the integrity and reputation of the game' - which I think has a different meaning, and it is the same terms many other professional bodies use. If you kill 2 kids aged 8 and 10 because you got drunk at a friends wedding and drove yourself home, or you rape someone, then that has gone far beyond what it means to be a role model anyway.

I agree that this would be an improvement, but it would mean the F.A. making a moral stand, and as we know better than most they don't do that. They would probably make some mealy mouthed statement about restriction of trade, payed his debt to society,blah blah blah. The P.F.A. wouldn't encourage the F.A. as it would not be in the interests of their members.
I wasn't addressing my role model remarks at you, it is just one of my bug bears, when media, etc imply the likes of Rooney, Terry, and the gentlemen discussed on this thread, should be held up as role models just because they happen to be able to kick a ball better than 99.999 % of the population.

 

[Beach Seagull]

I would welcome Ched Evans and his goals to the Albion. He deserves a second chance, he's served his time. She was no 'little miss innocent' she willingly went back to McDonalds hotel within seconds of meeting him. Hate the way the papers label him 'rapist' as if he is some filthy pervert waiting in a dimly lit alleyway dragging a girl into the bushes. If she had 'met' Evans before McDonald she no doubt would've gone back to his hotel with him especially when the word 'footballer' was mentioned. He didn't stand a chance at that trial in the 'all men are rapists' climate that we exist in here.

I sincerely hope he rebuilds his career and wins his appeal.

 

[Bold Seagull]

I would welcome Ched Evans and his goals to the Albion. He deserves a second chance, he's served his time. She was no 'little miss innocent' she willingly went back to McDonalds hotel within seconds of meeting him. Hate the way the papers label him 'rapist' as if he is some filthy pervert waiting in a dimly lit alleyway dragging a girl into the bushes. If she had 'met' Evans before McDonald she no doubt would've gone back to his hotel with him especially when the word 'footballer' was mentioned. He didn't stand a chance at that trial in the 'all men are rapists' climate that we exist in here.

I sincerely hope he rebuilds his career and wins his appeal.

 

[Lower West Stander]

I agree that this would be an improvement, but it would mean the F.A. making a moral stand, and as we know better than most they don't do that. They would probably make some mealy mouthed statement about restriction of trade, payed his debt to society,blah blah blah. The P.F.A. wouldn't encourage the F.A. as it would not be in the interests of their members.
I wasn't addressing my role model remarks at you, it is just one of my bug bears, when media, etc imply the likes of Rooney, Terry, and the gentlemen discussed on this thread, should be held up as role models just because they happen to be able to kick a ball better than 99.999 % of the population.

Interesting analogy with what's going on out here in the US with the NFL's handling of the Ray Rice and Adrian Peterson affairs. The initial response from the NFL was way too soft on both and they only toughened their stance when footage emerged of Rice banjoing his girlfriend in a lift and Peterson handing himself in to police admitting smacking his four year old son with a tree branch. Both are currently banned.

Public outcry drove the NFL on this. Rice and Peterson had virtually no defenders and there has been no clamour for their reinstatement, even though both are standout players who make a material difference to their team's performance. Neither of their clubs have come out either in defence of the player.

It would be nice if the reaction had been the same in the UK. Rice and Peterson have been given short shrift and the same should happen to Evans who, lest we forget, has actually been convicted by a jury, regardless of what his (totally impartial obviously) family and mates say.

 

[Beach Seagull]

Do i get the 'fishing' dig because I've dared express a view away from the 'make the rapist pay for this for the rest of his life' view?

FYI I'm not fishing but expressing my opinion as I and indeed everyone has a right to do on here. I hope this talented young man rebuilds his life and finds a club who are prepared to pay him the thousands of pounds a week his talent deserves and that he wins his appeal and the young 'lady' he 'raped' is exposed for what she is.

 

[Driver8]

This happened very close to where I live and I know the identity of the young lady involved.

Knowing what I do I have a lot of sympathy with Evans.

 

[BensGrandad]

You are opening yourself up for a severe slating from the holier than thou brigade.

 

[clippedgull]

The well financed public relation spin machine is starting up

A statement released on behalf of Evans said: "Next week Ched will make a very personal and profound statement by video which will be on his site and available for use by the media should they choose to do so.

"Ched is now adjusting to normal life after serving a sentence for a crime consistently denied."

 

[Bold Seagull]

Bloody hell, and they claim dinosaurs are extinct!

 

[Acker79]

Do i get the 'fishing' dig because I've dared express a view away from the 'make the rapist pay for this for the rest of his life' view?

No, I think you got the fishing 'dig' because it seems like you think if it's not some scary stranger hiding in the bushes, it doesn't count as rape, that being drunk and willing to go to a hotel with one man means you deserve no sympathy, or you have no right to expect other men not to show up and take their turn when you're in no state to say no to them, capped off with a neat suggestion that the real tragedy of rape culture is the bad reputation men get, not that only 11% of rapes come to the attention of the police, that rape convictions have reached an all time high at a mere 68% (it's 83% overall), that women are routinely shouted down with threats of rape.

I think that is why you got the fishing 'dig'.

 

[Beach Seagull]

No, I think you got the fishing 'dig' because it seems like you think if it's not some scary stranger hiding in the bushes, it doesn't count as rape, that being drunk and willing to go to a hotel with one man means you deserve no sympathy, or you have no right to expect other men not to show up and take their turn when you're in no state to say no to them, capped off with a neat suggestion that the real tragedy of rape culture is the bad reputation men get, not that only 11% of rapes come to the attention of the police, that rape convictions have reached an all time high at a mere 68% (it's 83% overall), that women are routinely shouted down with threats of rape.

I think that is why you got the fishing 'dig'.

A pervert hiding in the bushes is a rapist a guy sh*gg*ng some little t*rt who has willingly gone back to a hotel after meeting someone for 1 minute is not. She smelt the pound notes compensation when she realised he was a footballer. Dont care what the right on brigade say he is not a rapist, she was a drunken little t*rt who was pretty much anyones that night, decent young girls dont go back to a guys hotel within minutes of meeting them.

How do you know 'only 11% of rapes are reported to the police?'

Awaits flaming from the NSC PC brigade.

 

[brakespear]

A pervert hiding in the bushes is a rapist a guy sh*gg*ng some little t*rt who has willingly gone back to a hotel after meeting someone for 1 minute is not. She smelt the pound notes compensation when she realised he was a footballer. Dont care what the right on brigade say he is not a rapist, she was a drunken little t*rt who was pretty much anyones that night, decent young girls dont go back to a guys hotel within minutes of meeting them.

How do you know 'only 11% of rapes are reported to the police?'

Awaits flaming from the NSC PC brigade.

I think this says more about you than it does the woman in question.

 

[Beach Seagull]

I think this says more about you than it does the woman in question.

Care to elaborate? To me it says i have an opinion that dares to differ from the majority re Ched Evans. I wonder if the 'victim' wouldve gone squealing to the police if it wasn't a footballer involved?? Going buy the maxim 'I was too drunk to remember' we can surely expect mass arrests across the country every Sat and Sunday morning?? The vast majority of women who were 'too drunk to remember' the next day usually put it down to experience and vow to go easier on the vodka and lemonade the next time whilst having a 'I can't believe what I did last night' convo with their mates. If every woman cried 'rape' after a drunken sexual encounter with a guy the prisons would be overflowing with 'rapists.'

 

[Thunder Bolt]

L

Care to elaborate? To me it says i have an opinion that dares to differ from the majority re Ched Evans. I wonder if the 'victim' wouldve gone squealing to the police if it wasn't a footballer involved?? Going buy the maxim 'I was too drunk to remember' we can surely expect mass arrests across the country every Sat and Sunday morning?? The vast majority of women who were 'too drunk to remember' the next day usually put it down to experience and vow to go easier on the vodka and lemonade the next time whilst having a 'I can't believe what I did last night' convo with their mates. If every woman cried 'rape' after a drunken sexual encounter with a guy the prisons would be overflowing with 'rapists.'

The victim didn't report the rape to the police.
The footballers mentioned sex to the police themselves.