catalonia independence vote......

[Blue Valkyrie]

referendums rarely end well, legal or illegal. May just confirmed UK will not recognise what is an Illegal break away state and rightly so.

For once the MayhemBOT gets it right.

Time to stand up to Putin in his hybrid war against us all.

 

[Hampster Gull]

Madrid will never let all that tax leave easily.

Already the EU and the USA are backing Madrid.....centralisation is the game in town by the powers that be.

Popcorn at the ready.

Possible Guardia Civil will go in and arrest everyone - and the mainstream media may try to put a glossy spin on it.

In reality - people are longing for decentralisation - just wait till the blockchain tech kicks in next year.......this is just the start......

Our Great Brexit Government are not recognising either

 

[studio150]

Our Great Brexit Government are not recognising either

Which is a surprise as it would be another country to make a trade deal with.

 

[larus]

If Catalonia had any support from the international community then it would be successful. It doesn't and probably won't - it will be unsuccessful very quickly as a result.

It has no army, the Catalan police will be unlikely to defend it - it is completely down to the people to defend, who already aren't in complete agreement over the decision. It will be a weak and short-lived defence, especially as the separatist leaders are arrested, which we should expect within the next 24 hours.

It's a shame, because it deserves its independence - or at least a fair and democratic referendum like Scotland had. Spain has been completely undemocratic throughout all this, very disappointing.

I don’t think it’s as clear cut as you do. If the local population are supportive of independence and now more anti-Spain, there is the potential for civil unrest. If the referendum had been held and allowed to proceed, it is nightly likely that the vote would have been a no. Look at the results now. 90% of the 43% who voted were for independence. If we assume that a turnout of 86% is good, then 90% of the remaining 43% would need to vote No to balance out the first set of voters. Unlikely IMO. THere were many who wanted to vote who were barred by the police tactics.

These same police tactics have entrenched the independence cause and made more people who may have been No voters now side with the independence call.

I can’t see a swift, easy resolution for this. All I can see is violence, and the damage this will do to Spain/Catalan if Spanish security forces start killing Catalonians will lead to resentment and anger, and possible ‘terrorist’ retaliation from the Catalonians in other parts of Spain.

There needs to be talks and a climb-down from the Spanish government. You can’t rule a sizeable region within your own country by fear/military ‘occupation’. If the Catalonians are given more autonomy, this can be resolved peacefully - the Iron-Fist approach will fail I fear.

Not a good day.

 

[soistes]

I don’t think it’s as clear cut as you do. If the local population are supportive of independence and now more anti-Spain, there is the potential for civil unrest. If the referendum had been held and allowed to proceed, it is nightly likely that the vote would have been a no. Look at the results now. 90% of the 43% who voted were for independence. If we assume that a turnout of 86% is good, then 90% of the remaining 43% would need to vote No to balance out the first set of voters. Unlikely IMO. THere were many who wanted to vote who were barred by the police tactics.

These same police tactics have entrenched the independence cause and made more people who may have been No voters now side with the independence call.

I can’t see a swift, easy resolution for this. All I can see is violence, and the damage this will do to Spain/Catalan if Spanish security forces start killing Catalonians will lead to resentment and anger, and possible ‘terrorist’ retaliation from the Catalonians in other parts of Spain.

There needs to be talks and a climb-down from the Spanish government. You can’t rule a sizeable region within your own country by fear/military ‘occupation’. If the Catalonians are given more autonomy, this can be resolved peacefully - the Iron-Fist approach will fail I fear.

Not a good day.

Genuine question- are they Catalonians (as lots of commentators seem to be referring to them as) or Catalans (which is what I always thought they were)?


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[larus]

Genuine question- are they Catalonians (as lots of commentators seem to be referring to them as) or Catalans (which is what I always thought they were)?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Don’t know - the word I’ve heard regularly is Catalonians, but this may be wrong. I’m not going to get into a debate about it though (like with Trigaar/Buzzer on another thread about Saints and potential for relegation ). Life’s too bloody short

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Putin is stoking this and absolutely loving it.

Let's turn the tables.

Time for separatist movements in the russian federation, time for the republics to break away, and for Putin's kleptocracy to stop stealing from the russian people.

 

[Frutos]

Genuine question- are they Catalonians (as lots of commentators seem to be referring to them as) or Catalans (which is what I always thought they were)?


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The correct demonym would be Catalan.

In their language, their new country is called Catalunya.

 

[larus]

Genuine question- are they Catalonians (as lots of commentators seem to be referring to them as) or Catalans (which is what I always thought they were)?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

After a little bit of research, it would appear that Catalan refers to the people (for example - Irish), yet Catalonia refers to the region like Northern Ireland/Republic Of Ireland.

So, I guess in this context Catalonians is the correct term as we are referring to the people of the region.

The correct demonym would be Catalan.

In their language, their new country is called Catalunya.

 

[Frutos]

After a little bit of research, it would appear that Catalan refers to the people (for example - Irish), yet Catalonia refers to the region like Northern Ireland/Republic Of Ireland.

So, I guess in this context Catalonians is the correct term as we are referring to the people of the region.

You presumably don't refer to people as Englandians, Scotlandians, Walesians or Northern Irelandians, do you?

More likely, you use English, Scottish, Welsh and Irish, which are the correct demonyms, just as the correct one for people from Catalonia/Catalunya is Catalans - context doesn't enter into it.

 

[larus]

You presumably don't refer to people as Englandians, Scotlandians, Walesians or Northern Irelandians, do you?

More likely, you use English, Scottish, Welsh and Irish, which are the correct demonyms, just as the correct one for people from Catalonia/Catalunya is Catalans - context doesn't enter into it.

No but i refer to people from Egypt as Egyptians. What does that prove?
Adding an ‘s’ is not a standard way. France - French. Sweden, Swedish. Holland - Dutch. Denmark - Danish. Norway - Norwegian. Do you want me to go on as there’s loads more ?

As I said earlier, I don’t really know and was repeating what appears to be a common terminology.

 

[Frutos]

No but i refer to people from Egypt as Egyptians. What does that prove?
Adding an ‘s’ is not a standard way. France - French. Sweden, Swedish. Holland - Dutch. Denmark - Danish. Norway - Norwegian. Do you want me to go on as there’s loads more [emoji38] ?

As I said earlier, I don’t really know and was repeating what appears to be a common terminology.

I genuinely don't wish to be rude, but the correct term is Catalans - you say you don't really know, which is entirely fair enough, but I do know.

The answer is Catalans.

 

[larus]

I genuinely don't wish to be rude, but the correct term is Catalans - you say you don't really know, which is entirely fair enough, but I do know.

The answer is Catalans.

OK as I said I don’t know and am only wondering why Catalonians appears to be a common term.

The context could be relevant depending upon if you are referring to a region (Catalonia) or the Ethnicity. Again, I’m not being argumentative as I don’t know, but Catalans is the Ethnicity terminology I believe.

For example, someone could be British in terms of nationality (region), but Indian in terms of Ethnicity. So, I took it that Catalonian referred to people living in Catalonia and not someone of Catalan ethnicity.

It’s not a big issue to me either way - just curious why the word Catalonians is widely used if it’s false.

 

[dingodan]

There Catalish innit.

 

[Bob'n'weave]

Completely agree with this.

My money is on the following:

Some violence
The EU wetting itself
The EU telling Spain they have to sort this out
Spain give Catalonia what they want but agree to "cooperate" in some loose way so they all stay part of the EU and Catalonia feels more independent whilst no one suffers financially.

.......which should serve as a benchmark for stabilising the Euro Zone in times of change, just like Brexit. If any compromise is sought then this puts us in a great bargaining position for making a deal. If the batons come out and it all goes tits, then any 'hard Brexit' will be seen as calling on more carnage for Euro states. Grab the popcorn, this is going to be interesting.

 

[Frutos]

they should have a football match to decide, Madrid v Barca.

Girona, a team from Catalunya newly-promoted to the Primera Division (and apparently the team supported by Carlos Puigdemont), beat Real Madrid 2-1 this afternoon.

 

[larus]

Girona, a team from Catalunya newly-promoted to the Primera Division (and apparently the team supported by Carlos Puigdemont), beat Real Madrid 2-1 this afternoon.

It's a sign - I tells ya

 

[basque seagull]

Genuine question- are they Catalonians (as lots of commentators seem to be referring to them as) or Catalans (which is what I always thought they were)?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

In Spanish they are called Catalanes so in English often they are called Catalans. However in English the country is called Catalonia, see Homage to Catalonia by George Orwell, a great book, and so technically in English they are Catalonians. The country is Cataluña in Spanish and Catalunya in the Catalan language (Catalá in their language).

 

[Giraffe]

The heat just went up a notch.

"Spain's chief prosecutor has announced charges including rebellion and sedition against Catalan leaders following the region's declaration of independence."

Imagine if we had acted like that against Nicola Sturgeon!

 

[alfredmizen]

The heat just went up a notch.

"Spain's chief prosecutor has announced charges including rebellion and sedition against Catalan leaders following the region's declaration of independence."

Imagine if we had acted like that against Nicola Sturgeon!

Much as we.might dislike her , she did it properly , and the (small) majority of catalans want to remain part of spain.