Caroline Lucas (bleedin heart lefty)

[wellquickwoody]

'Can often be seen...'. Maybe, although that point is moot here. However, seeing as you lack objectivity regarding Green Party politics (look at your signature), your comments about Caroline Lucas can't be taken as anything other than pre-judged.

She didn't join a violent demonstration. She joined a protest which turned violent. She hates far-right wing politics and will join a protest to say so. In fact, there are many things she agrees or disagrees with that she will protest or celebrate (Amex bike train...?) And she was doing this before she became an MP. Tell us about your favourite armchair politicians, and the things they believe in...

Whether you agree or disagree with her is another point.

Bearing in mind your opposition to the UK's presence in Iraq and Afghanistan, you might have to enlighten us about your love for EDO though, Ian.

Lucas has raised questions about the policeing of a lawful demo in which left leaning student types attacked members of the demo and police officers.

Will she play true to form, and blame police for any violence at the Smash EDO? Remember that there will not be protestors and counter protestors, just protestors and plod, one of which would love an easy day on overtime.

If so, she should resign as she is unfit to hold office.

 

[The Large One]

Lucas has raised questions about the policeing of a lawful demo in which left leaning student types attacked members of the demo and police officers.

Will she play true to form, and blame police for any violence at the Smash EDO? Remember that there will not be protestors and counter protestors, just protestors and plod, one of which would love an easy day on overtime.

If so, she should resign as she is unfit to hold office.

Why shouldn't she question the police's actions? Who is anyone to say she can't? Have you never criticised the police for anything? Ever?

Sorry, what does 'true to form and blame police...' mean? It's not what she does. I'm not sure you know what she stands for; more indulging in stereotyping of what you perceive Green politicians to be.

She supports Smash EDO. She doesn't support acts of violence. Indeed, the very thing that you initially criticised her for, is the very thing you did yourself; 'so boring; being true to form...' etc.

And you still haven't answered my question - what exactly did she say?

 

[seagullsovergrimsby]

Well f*** me, that's not heavy handed. All I could see there was a few jabs from the mounted coppers, no overarm swinging like the good old days.

I dunno, coppers today, could learn a bit from the old boys.

Surprised they haven't watched the videos from the miners strike in 1984 for a few pointers in how to control a crowd.

 

[Deleted User X18H]

As I said to Mccafferty if everyone just ignored this unpleasant minority then they would pretty much piss off after an hour or so. That is the best way to deal with these types.

Not do a big show off ' everyone, lets act against the fascists' - Yeah and waste valuable police time and resources and cause umpteen pounds worth of damages so local shop keepers have to pay the bill. It was the organised anti mob who caused of the problem.

I have said it once I 'll say it again. For some of us Brighton is a town to live in - Not to show off in.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

'Can often be seen...'. Maybe, although that point is moot here. However, seeing as you lack objectivity regarding Green Party politics (look at your signature), your comments about Caroline Lucas can't be taken as anything other than pre-judged.

She didn't join a violent demonstration. She joined a protest which turned violent. She hates far-right wing politics and will join a protest to say so. In fact, there are many things she agrees or disagrees with that she will protest or celebrate (Amex bike train...?) And she was doing this before she became an MP. Tell us about your favourite armchair politicians, and the things they believe in...

Whether you agree or disagree with her is another point.

Bearing in mind your opposition to the UK's presence in Iraq and Afghanistan, you might have to enlighten us about your love for EDO though, Ian.

She joined a demonstration / protest who's organisers refused to communicate their intentions to the police. Hardly the actions of a mature and responsible politician.

My distrust and dislike of the Green Party has been developed since they took office - I actually voted Green at the last local elections ( I won't make the same mistake again ). They have been proven to break promises ( Ian Davey publicly stated there wouldn't be a huge hike in parking prices ), failed to deliver Green policies - the attempted huge hike in allotment fees was anything but Green and where's our weekly recycling along with our green waste recycling as well as a decent Park and Ride. Add to that the awful political speeches by Jason Kitcat and his generally amateurish speeches to council ( all watchable via the webcasts ) and you have a totally discredited party who don't know what they're doing.

As for Iraq and Afghanistan - yes, I disagree with those wars but that doesn't mean I automatically disagree with the arms / defence industry - I've actually worked in it so it would be very hypocritical of me to do so. What I object to is Smash EDO using illegal acts of violence against a perfectly legal business.

My signature is no more surprising than your predictable defence of the Green Party and it's members - I've never seen you criticise the Green Party once Alan despite your protestations that you're not biased towards them.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

still banging on about lazy unwashed anarchists ,hardly worth the discussion, OB DID THE RIGHT THING AND GAVE THEM A BEATING , i wonder if those that get caught out on CCTV will get done for affray

 

[wellquickwoody]

Why shouldn't she question the police's actions? Who is anyone to say she can't? Have you never criticised the police for anything? Ever?

Sorry, what does 'true to form and blame police...' mean? It's not what she does. I'm not sure you know what she stands for; more indulging in stereotyping of what you perceive Green politicians to be.

She supports Smash EDO. She doesn't support acts of violence. Indeed, the very thing that you initially criticised her for, is the very thing you did yourself; 'so boring; being true to form...' etc.

And you still haven't answered my question - what exactly did she say?

I do not criticise her right to question the actions of Sussex Police, I question the sincerity of her questions.

She is useing the platform of anti-facism to enhance her standing amongst other left wing voters.

When, as I believe she will, support the actions of Smash EDO, there will be no easy criticism of the Police.

Caroline Lucas is a left wing student in adults clothing. At the next elections, local and national, the Greens will be humiliated.

 

[The Large One]

My signature is no more surprising than your predictable defence of the Green Party and it's members - I've never seen you criticise the Green Party once Alan despite your protestations that you're not biased towards them.

My defence of the Green Party on here is as 'predictable' as - as you call it, though far more measured than - some of the hysteria on here criticising them.

I have had many moans and whines at the Greens before on many occasions; I happen to think Jason Kitcat is a total pillock. The fact that you haven't read or heard that isn't my problem. I'm just wondering why you think it's so important for me to criticise them - would that be just to please you? After all, all you're doing is criticising the fact that I'm offering some balance to the debate.

Many of the things people criticise the Greens for, for instance, are actually Labour or Tory poilcies or programmes - your example above, for instance - yet I never hear you criticise the Tories for the same things. Predictable?

I appalled at what Labour has become, and I've always hated the Tories. However, I inwardly laugh at the Daily Mail-esque fear and near-hysteria created by what people think the Greens are. By all means moan at them, but people are even moaning at them for good ideas. Predictable?

 

[The Large One]

I do not criticise her right to question the actions of Sussex Police, I question the sincerity of her questions.

She is useing the platform of anti-facism to enhance her standing amongst other left wing voters.

When, as I believe she will, support the actions of Smash EDO, there will be no easy criticism of the Police.

Caroline Lucas is a left wing student in adults clothing. At the next elections, local and national, the Greens will be humiliated.

WHAT QUESTIONS? What has she said? Please answer. Why won't you answer that? Is it too difficult?

Anyone using a platform to promote anti-fascism is fine by me. If anyone then wishes to join her is free to do so. You make it sound like a bad thing.

Caroline Lucas is a left wing student in adults clothing. At the next elections, local and national, the Greens will be humiliated.

Maybe, maybe not. But seeing as you still haven't worked out what she stands for, you're not really in a position to make that judgement. It's more wishful thinking on your part.

 

[Deleted User X18H]

What did she actually say? I mean - the quotes.

If it's on Twitter or Facebook, I can't get them.

The criticisms aren't on her website.

Did she call for the EDL march to be called off?

After all, it was her constituents whose businesses and Sunday that were affected by it.

No, is the answer. She merely protested against it. A conviction politician that you don't like because... she's a conviction politician.

'Can often be seen...'. Maybe, although that point is moot here. However, seeing as you lack objectivity regarding Green Party politics (look at your signature), your comments about Caroline Lucas can't be taken as anything other than pre-judged.

She didn't join a violent demonstration. She joined a protest which turned violent. She hates far-right wing politics and will join a protest to say so. In fact, there are many things she agrees or disagrees with that she will protest or celebrate (Amex bike train...?) And she was doing this before she became an MP. Tell us about your favourite armchair politicians, and the things they believe in...

Whether you agree or disagree with her is another point.

Bearing in mind your opposition to the UK's presence in Iraq and Afghanistan, you might have to enlighten us about your love for EDO though, Ian.

Why shouldn't she question the police's actions? Who is anyone to say she can't? Have you never criticised the police for anything? Ever?

Sorry, what does 'true to form and blame police...' mean? It's not what she does. I'm not sure you know what she stands for; more indulging in stereotyping of what you perceive Green politicians to be.

She supports Smash EDO. She doesn't support acts of violence. Indeed, the very thing that you initially criticised her for, is the very thing you did yourself; 'so boring; being true to form...' etc.

And you still haven't answered my question - what exactly did she say?

My defence of the Green Party on here is as 'predictable' as - as you call it, though far more measured than - some of the hysteria on here criticising them.

I have had many moans and whines at the Greens before on many occasions; I happen to think Jason Kitcat is a total pillock. The fact that you haven't read or heard that isn't my problem. I'm just wondering why you think it's so important for me to criticise them - would that be just to please you? After all, all you're doing is criticising the fact that I'm offering some balance to the debate.

Many of the things people criticise the Greens for, for instance, are actually Labour or Tory poilcies or programmes - your example above, for instance - yet I never hear you criticise the Tories for the same things. Predictable?

I appalled at what Labour has become, and I've always hated the Tories. However, I inwardly laugh at the Daily Mail-esque fear and near-hysteria created by what people think the Greens are. By all means moan at them, but people are even moaning at them for good ideas. Predictable?

As we progress for early to late evening the responses become more elongated, more expressive, more articulated.

Well Roger De Courcey had Nookie!

 

[wellquickwoody]

As we progress for early to late evening the responses become more elongated, more expressive, more articulated.

Well Roger De Courcey had Nookie!

Well I'll be roger(ed)!

 

[Westdene Seagull]

After all, all you're doing is criticising the fact that I'm offering some balance to the debate.

But from my perspective you're not. You may have criticised Kitcat ( if you did I didn't see it but then I don't read every thread or every single one of your posts ) but you do jump to the defence of the Green Party rather quickly and passionately.

Many of the things people criticise the Greens for, for instance, are actually Labour or Tory poilcies or programmes - your example above, for instance - yet I never hear you criticise the Tories for the same things. Predictable?

I assume you mean the P&R policy ? Agreed the Tories were as bad but then again they're not known for having green policies. The Labour attempt was a complete shambles. That doesn't excuse the Greens not having a valid and realistic P&R policy with a practical implementation plan and timescale ( and for the avoidance of doubt, it shouldn't be a re-hash of the Labour one to tarmac allotments and playing fields and kicking people out of their homes ).

 

[melias shoes]

From what I saw they were very heavy handed.

They needed to be to stop the 'Anti fascists'- that's a contradiction of sorts.

 

[melias shoes]

still banging on about lazy unwashed anarchists ,hardly worth the discussion, OB DID THE RIGHT THING AND GAVE THEM A BEATING , i wonder if those that get caught out on CCTV will get done for affray

I wouldn't have thought so.

 

[The Large One]

But from my perspective you're not. You may have criticised Kitcat ( if you did I didn't see it but then I don't read every thread or every single one of your posts ) but you do jump to the defence of the Green Party rather quickly and passionately.

So you admit you don't fully know where I am coming from. You make having a political argument - including defence or attack of any particular party or policy - sound like a bad thing. Your perspective is merely to attack issues just because they come from a given party - especially with the relish with which you wish to attack the Greens, just because they're the Greens. My perspective is to offer an alternative viewpoint to the debate.

There are things that makes me wince and facepalm when it comes to the Greens, but you're not prepared to acknowledge that.

I assume you mean the P&R policy ? Agreed the Tories were as bad but then again they're not known for having green policies. The Labour attempt was a complete shambles. That doesn't excuse the Greens not having a valid and realistic P&R policy with a practical implementation plan and timescale ( and for the avoidance of doubt, it should be a re-hash of the Labour one to tarmac allotments and playing fields and kicking people out of their homes ).

Now you're being selective. You pick ONE issue, and it's not what I'm on about at all.

 

[HawkTheSeagull]

Yes it was. Plenty more examples where that came from too.

This for example: Black firefighter 'tasered as he tried to help police'

My point is that your comment that law abiding people have nothing to fear from the police is not always true.

I never said the police will always get it right, there will always be some officers who get too aggressive unfortunately. Its rare that members of the public who are unrelated to a protest for example, will get hit by police force of course - thankfully there hasnt been loads of cases like that one posted on this topic.

 

[BadFish]

No, force is to be used when people dont follow orders

I just wanted to quote this sentence, I know it is taken out of context but......... Just thinking about the other context that this sentence would fit nicely into fills me with dread.

 

[BadFish]

Lucas has raised questions about the policeing of a lawful demo in which left leaning student types attacked members of the demo and police officers.

Will she play true to form, and blame police for any violence at the Smash EDO? Remember that there will not be protestors and counter protestors, just protestors and plod, one of which would love an easy day on overtime.

If so, she should resign as she is unfit to hold office.

Do you have any evidence of this? Did you see it? because so far on this thread i have seen no evidence of this. The only violence I have seen has come from the police which kind of validates her point.

(I do concede I was not at the march so don't know the details, but someone on the first page who was there seemed to agree with her statement.)

 

[pastafarian]

so in summary:

right wing racists twats are not welcome in Brighton.
flag waving peaceful English Patriots are more than welcome to celebrate St Georges Day.
left wing Anarchist police beating unwashed hippy twats are not welcome in Brighton.
there is nothing wrong with a good natured peaceful anti demonstration which does not resort to violence

the green party had a great opportunity to do something different in this country but have reverted to the normal political stereotype and are now as useless as the other parties.

is that the jist of it?

 

[Working class pride]

I'm amazed that anyone these days still thinks that they way you get political change is to march down a street. Whether red, yellow or blue is running the country I thought everyone had worked out that you either run a media organisation and promise to write nice things. Or else set up a "lobbying" company. Or else pay big money to a political party. Or maybe invite a politician to be a non executive director of your company / trade organisation. Or perhaps you go to lunch, parties and social functions with a politician who sees nothing wrong with giving access to government in such a fashion. Or else you promise someone some kind of gong like a Knighthood. Edmund Blackadder would be proud. Why these people dont understand that marching down a street just increases our police bill I don't know. Why can't they play by the rules above like everyone else ?