[Politics] Capitalism - for better? Or worse?

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I am not trying to make out it is simple. I am saying the current shower have made a complete and utter mess of it all, not that Corbyn would have done any better, or Cable, or Sturgeon....... although they couldn't have done much worse.

And I'm doing sufficient hip exercises, thank you. Walked over 4 miles today as well.......

Hip exercises you say? Tantric marimba? Microbrew pilates?

 

[LowKarate]

The enemy of democracy, however is referenda. Especially referenda with imutable outcomes.

You just described polls.

Now I understand your allergic reaction to them.

 

[Weststander]

Basically correct - with some provisos. I like capitalism. But I like regulation. And I like trade unionism. Unfortunately the pursuit of self interest is pernicious. Unfettered capitalism leads to low wages, insufficient to fund private health care, education and pensions since the most efficient system is to work the donkeys till they drop, then bring in younger donkeys. In contrast, unfettered socialism requires centralization and can only function if decentralization (via the ballot box) is abolished (oops! one party state). So we exist in a state of political adversity, which reduces to speed-dating every few years, with politicians titrating the biggest lie they can sell against the smallest opprobrium they will face when the lie is revealed. The public are of course to blame. If a party promises little the electorate says 'OK, **** off then, I'm voting for the free gift guy'.

This is why I am not in favour of 'democracy'. However I can't think of a better system. Democracy is disruptive, unpredicatable and adaptable. Humans are contrary. Capitalism with regulation, managed by laws, overseen by replacable politicians. I like it. By and large we already do it well.

The enemy of democracy, however is referenda. Especially referenda with imutable outcomes. Once in a lifetime, like. That is why Cameron is our worst ever PM. He gave up on politics; never the best plan for a politician.

Good post, as usual.

Genuine question ... do you believe in referenda being held for Scottish Independence, and also Catalan Independence? Then follow up referenda say 10 years later, if in our case, the SNP don’t get their wish with the first?

To me, it should’ve been the same as the Canadian Neverendum. But here the necessarily divisive SNP will never stop complaining.

 

[Hastings gull]

I am not trying to make out it is simple. I am saying the current shower have made a complete and utter mess of it all, not that Corbyn would have done any better, or Cable, or Sturgeon....... although they couldn't have done much worse.

And I'm doing sufficient hip exercises, thank you. Walked over 4 miles today as well.......

Good that all is coming along well -I took much longer after both my hip jobs. I notice on the other reply that you advocated a broader approach straddling the parties which might have been better, and yes, on hindsight, that may well have been the case. Or would it? Labour and Tory are now meeting, and by all accounts can not agree, and quite frankly, I could never have envisaged the likes of Rees Mogg, McDonnell Soubry Sturgeon and the DUP to name a few ever coming to an acceptable compromise. It sounds good, but would it have yielded anything?

 

[Weststander]

Good that all is coming along well -I took much longer after both my hip jobs. I notice on the other reply that you advocated a broader approach straddling the parties which might have been better, and yes, on hindsight, that may well have been the case. Or would it? Labour and Tory are now meeting, and by all accounts can not agree, and quite frankly, I could never have envisaged the likes of Rees Mogg, McDonnell Soubry Sturgeon and the DUP to name a few ever coming to an acceptable compromise. It sounds good, but would it have yielded anything?

This. The 650 mainly Remain MP’s, but with a wide array of strong views, were never going to reach a majority consensus.

No matter for the “far better communication”, “greater respect for the commons”, blah, blah, blah ... that punchbag May should’ve exhibited apparently.

Soubry, Starmer, Cable, JRM, Cash, Corbyn, the DUP, SNP, hold such wildly different and very blinkered views on the EU, it was next to impossible. It still is. With hidden party politics going on. Corbyn is a huge career opponent of the EU, but would rather any May deal collapse, to bring down the government or at least look relatively less shite in the eyes of the electorate.

 

[Hastings gull]

This. The 650 mainly Remain MP’s, but with a wide array of strong views, were never going to reach a majority consensus.

No matter for the “far better communication”, “greater respect for the commons”, blah, blah, blah ... that punchbag May should’ve exhibited apparently.

Soubry, Starmer, Cable, JRM, Cash, Corbyn, the DUP, SNP, hold such wildly different and very blinkered views on the EU, it was next to impossible. It still is. With hidden party politics going on. Corbyn is a huge career opponent of the EU, but would rather any May deal collapse, to bring down the government or at least look relatively less shite in the eyes of the electorate.

Yes, very true reference Corbyn. I strongly suspect that had Labour been involved from the outset, and however reasonable Starmer may have appeared, there would have been the Corbynistas in the background with the sole intention of prioritising any move that might bring down the government. And, to be fair, the ERG would have been similarly sceptical of any consensus regardding Europe.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Good post, as usual.

Genuine question ... do you believe in referenda being held for Scottish Independence, and also Catalan Independence? Then follow up referenda say 10 years later, if in our case, the SNP don’t get their wish with the first?

To me, it should’ve been the same as the Canadian Neverendum. But here the necessarily divisive SNP will never stop complaining.

Very good question. If I may, I will rephrase it: Do I consider it legitimate to offer the sweaties a referendum on leaving the UK even though I am against referenda in general and a Brexit referendum in particular? OK here are the issues:

Sweatyland was taken by England by conquest (albeit a conquest that some sweaties welcomed). We pretend we are all part of the UK, but in reality England owns it. Maybe the Sweaties have a right to test this by a referendum.

That said, they have already had one (I think - to be honest I don't give much thought to chillyonia) so there should be some sort of limit on how soon they need to wait for another pop. Ten years? I don't actually care.

Once they vote leave, it is no issue. Either they leave a UK in the EU, in which case the jocks will have to rebuild Hadrians wall because of being out of the EU (England Wales and the jock-paddies still being in the EU - hard border against the Turks, Jocks and other wogs being necessary for Security and trade and immigration management), or they may be allowed free use of the M6 by a kindly England, now out of the EU, and a free agent, trading luxuriously with eager partners like Indonesia, Kuwait, Nepal, Vulcan and Narnia.

And either way, the jocks would need to negotiate their own deals with the ROTW. Good luck with that.

So, I am not bothered about a Joxit referendum, because it is their funeral. That said, they had one recently, and wisely voted to kneel before the English and hope nobody noticed the disloyalty. Personally I don't understand why any English party (Conservative or Labour - there are only two that matter) objecting to another Joxit vote, but I'd tell the buggers they get one only once every 10 years, and once they have gone, they are gone.

They'd probably vote 'I wish I were English, so help McMe' though, anyway . . . .

 

[dingodan]

What are your views on the funding of healthcare, schooling and infrastructure?

That they are all both "free", and unsustainably falling apart, and will continue to be.

 

[dingodan]

Communism as an ideology that we know it was envisaged when we were still basically a horse and cart. Some Americans believe that the Welfare State is as close to Communism as we can get.

I think what they believe is that you either believe in freedom, or you don't. They treat freedom like a principle.

What a quaint idea.

 

[Sirnormangall]

Love the phrase “Joxit” - not heard that before, I need to get out more. If Wales left it would presumably be a “Waxit”.

 

[Seagull]

Unfettered pursuit of profit results in the concentration of resources and wealth in fewer and fewer hands over time. The market system will eat the planet and the capacity of most current species to live on it, unless it is restricted or replaced. And in general more stuff, more money does not produce more happiness for humans. We live in an age of delusion and divorce from oursleves, from who we are.

 

[dingodan]

Unfettered pursuit of profit results in the concentration of resources and wealth in fewer and fewer hands over time. The market system will eat the planet and the capacity of most current species to live on it, unless it is restricted or replaced. And in general more stuff, more money does not produce more happiness for humans. We live in an age of delusion and divorce from oursleves, from who we are.

 

[ferring seagull]

Capitalism has failed to deliver for billions of people, it has remained the leading economic force as it dose work very well for some and OK for others predominantly living in the West (happy accident of birth) but for Billions of others it has failed them.

Capitalisum is based on a very unpleasant human character flaw that being greed however the good news is Capitalisum as does everything have a life cycle and Capitalisum is entering its later life and will eventually die to be replaced by?

Shouldn't you be posting as Red3 ? or do you have some superior, or what is that Prophesised, economic philosophy ?

There are perhaps shortcomings in any Economic strategy but not sure about Capitalisum though !

 

[ferring seagull]

Good post, as usual.

Genuine question ... do you believe in referenda being held for Scottish Independence, and also Catalan Independence? Then follow up referenda say 10 years later, if in our case, the SNP don’t get their wish with the first?

To me, it should’ve been the same as the Canadian Neverendum. But here the necessarily divisive SNP will never stop complaining.

As a Scotsman, if there is no alternative to the SNP, God help the 'normal' Scots !

 

[ferring seagull]

Love the phrase “Joxit” - not heard that before, I need to get out more. If Wales left it would presumably be a “Waxit”.

Perhaps what you don't understand is that there are quite a substantial number of 'normal people' in Scotland,

That 'power' has been grabbed by those who are basically extremists whose motives are more than questionable is worrying !

 

[dingodan]

There was a 100% child mortality rate in 1990? Bullshit.

Yeah, I think it's probably safe to say that it's showing the % of reduction since 1990, rather than absolute percentages in population terms.

 

[dingodan]

So 1990 had a 100% reduction in the values from 1990? Again, bullshit.

No, the % of reduction is n(1990) - n(year).

So in 1990, everything was 100% of what it was in 1990 (100 - 100 = 0% reduction). In the year 2000, illiteracy was 60% of what it was in 1990 (100 - 60 = 40% reduction). In 2015, poverty was <30% what it was in 1990 (100 - <30 = 70+% reduction).

Hope that helps.

 

[dingodan]

That's not what you said. What you said, as you stated, would have 1990 at 0. It is at 100 on the graph.

Right, forgive me. The y axis shows the % of the 1990 value, rather than the % of reduction.

The % of reduction requires such a trivial calculation that I would describe the graph as "showing the % of reduction". But it's not what the axis represent directly, they show % of the 1990 value.

Hope that helps.

 

[dingodan]

Finally you made some sense. I still would like to see how they get those figures though! Especially the poverty one!

World poverty has been declining rapidly for a long time. It's pretty well known.

It's predictable too.

It's also a consequence of capitalism and market economics, and could never have been a consequence of anything else.

 

[BadFish]

As long as we have a wide range of companies to buy our goods and services from competition will ensure that the prices are kept low.

Everyone's a winner.