[Misc] Cancel Culture/Online Shaming

[Thunder Bolt]

That depends on how far to the right your own stance is. Some complaining of left wing bias are further to the right than Katie Hopkins etc.

Horseshoe politics. The extreme right is very similar to the extreme left.

 

[Peteinblack]

Although 'cancel culture' is - like the other lazy trope 'political correctness gone mad' - being used as a stick to attack the Left, the Right too have traditionally tried to silence people they disagree with.

Mary Whitehouse was always going to the High Court to get TV programmes banned (even without having seen them) because they apparently contained Blasphemy, swearing or explicit sex - I'd rather make my own mind up about what to watch, subject to a prior warning about the nature of the potentially offensive content.

The on-line comments of the Daily Mail are overflowing with permanently outraged Gammons demanding that X should be banned, Y should be sacked, and Z should be closed down. In fact, "It's disgraceful; it should be banned" seems to be the knee-jerk response of most pearl-clutching, net-curtain-twitching, sexually-frustrated Mail readers to absolutely anything they dislike or don't understand.

As for universities being criticised for not allowing free speech because of 'no-platforming' controversial people - I can well imagine the outrage which would ensue from Right-wingers if a student union invited someone like Gerry Adams to give a talk on 'Why Terrorism is OK to achieve political change'; the 'defend free speech' brigade would be howling for the whole university to be closed down!

Like the term 'snowflake - used against supposedly over-sensitive thin-skinned liberals - the people who tend to use the label (as an insult) are precisely the sort of people who would punch you in the face if they heard you criticise the Monarchy or Nigel Farage.

If it is good that people should be exposed to a variety of views and opinions (and I do believe it is), let's start with the media - what diversity of views and alternative opinions are permitted by the Daily Mail, the Daily Express, The Sun, the Daily Telegraph? Yet they have the sheer audacity to accuse liberals and the Left of creating an 'echo-chamber'.

People in glass-houses......

 

[dingodan]

I'm listening.

We are 24 posts in and nobody has really explained exactly what cancel culture is our why it is so bad.

I'm asking questions about what it actually is because at this stage I don't really understand.

Can you give me a good example?

Sent from my Redmi Note 7 using Tapatalk

It's when the mob becomes more powerful than the law.

The law says you have freedom of speech.

The mob says no you don't.

This battle is being waged right now, and if the mob win then we are all f*cked.

 

[rogersix]

Not true. BBC, Sky News Channel 4 are left leaning

really?

 

[Bakero]

Jon Ronson wrote a book a few years back on public shaming via social media a few years back. As with all his output, it's worth a read imo. Here's a related TED talk by Ronson:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAIP6fI0NAI

 

[cunning fergus]

I am opposed to cancel culture primarily because the far right are able to take the moral high ground, because of it.

If you allow them to express their opinions freely, everyone can see what a bunch of twats they truly are.
But instead they have managed to stake the claims to the freedom of speech movement, previously occupied by the left.

Massive own goal by the left, leading to growing support for right wing ideologies from the disenfranchised.

This view comes from the mindset that issues can be dealt with on a right and left wing basis, which itself is problematic as not all issues can be neatly pigeon holed that way.

The debate on transgender rights is a case in point, as no one could say (genuinely) that Germaine Greer is right wing for holding the view that the definition of a woman is based on biology.

https://www.varsity.co.uk/news/8105

In my view the battlegrounds of all of these these types of debate is the perennial struggle between radicalism and conservatism (small c).

The interesting thing with GG is that she was once a radical herself and is now conservative (small c), and this has much to do with where opposing sides seek to place the “centre ground” or put another way the majority held view.

These days it appears the new generation of radicals need to find new struggles to fight despite the progress made by their radical forebears. A point encapsulated by GG, who no doubt finds it ironic that having spent her life fighting male dominance, she is now being outed as a bigot because she does not agree that men identifying as women are not women.

I guess it’s a just another cycle of the parents of revolutions being consumed by the children, (like Robespierre) but then the lesson there is ignore the radicals.

 

[joydivisionovengloves]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Crucible

 

[Bakero]

This view comes from the mindset that issues can be dealt with on a right and left wing basis, which itself is problematic as not all issues can be neatly pigeon holed that way.

The debate on transgender rights is a case in point, as no one could say (genuinely) that Germaine Greer is right wing for holding the view that the definition of a woman is based on biology.

https://www.varsity.co.uk/news/8105

In my view the battlegrounds of all of these these types of debate is the perennial struggle between radicalism and conservatism (small c).

The interesting thing with GG is that she was once a radical herself and is now conservative (small c), and this has much to do with where opposing sides seek to place the “centre ground” or put another way the majority held view.

These days it appears the new generation of radicals need to find new struggles to fight despite the progress made by their radical forebears. A point encapsulated by GG, who no doubt finds it ironic that having spent her life fighting male dominance, she is now being outed as a bigot because she does not agree that men identifying as women are not women.

I guess it’s a just another cycle of the parents of revolutions being consumed by the children, (like Robespierre) but then the lesson there is ignore the radicals.

I agree that the left - right binary is irrelevant in this particular debate, no matter how much some on both sides would like to frame it as such. I don't see the cancellers or shamers as particularly radical though. You could say it's a rebellion against traditional liberal norms and perhaps hints at a shift from individualism to collectivism. At times this could be a force for good. The internet has given a voice to the voiceless and power to the powerless and the traditional gatekeepers are no longer omnipotent. Undoubtedly though, the anonymity of the web, along with echo chambers and the serotonin-boosting affirmation granted by likes and retweets, fuels a mob mentality at times.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

All the dystopians have predicted it in different ways, and it will only grow stronger. It is here to stay. And as a believer in the great conspiracy, I believe it is manufactured rather than dynamic or random as most believe. However, the beliefs of us conspiracy theorists were among the first to be "cancelled", and so the common perspective that this is a natural development is going to get the upper hand once those who oppose it realise that dissidence is self-destruction.

I wonder whether there is an element of industrial sabotage to it, backed by political interests.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Global corporations now live in terror of the social media lynch mob. Beyond pathetic, and it's only going to get worse before it gets better. It's the new McCarthyism and it's far from healthy

 

[Barham's tash]

Yes, I agree that was ridiculous.

Would have been great for the BBC to stand up for him.

And the manner in which it was done. “Sorry old chap but you understand we just have to absolutely do this. You gave us no choice.”

I genuinely thought it was also the recent phenomenon of not thinking twice about pulling out plans without a real reason on friends, restaurants etc where there is either an emotional or actual cost.

 

[7:18]

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

The law says you have freedom of speech.

Which isn’t true is it?

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

It’s funny how a lot of the people moaning about cancel culture and being silenced, are doing it very loudly and in national newspapers. Funny old world innit.

 

[Acker79]

What is wrong with people withdrawing support from people and companies which they dissaprove of?
Is it not a healthy option instead of being forced to support people and companies who do and say things you do not agree with? Choice is far better than being forced to use them.

Ah yes, that reminds me of the other sentiment I've seen in this discussion - cancel culture is the free market at work. People choosing where to spend their money, businesses to frequent, etc. If they don't like one of your employees, they will shop elsewhere. That's the free market at work.

 

[Acker79]

You think people should not have that freedom?

I think they should. I was adding another comment that I was agreeing with. That cancel culture was, at least initially, bemoaned by the same people who usually promote free market capitalism as the best thing ever.

 

[Guinness Boy]

I think they should. I was adding another comment that I was agreeing with. That cancel culture was, at least initially, bemoaned by the same people who usually promote free market capitalism as the best thing ever.

Very Tory, free market capatalism, isn't it?

 

[clapham_gull]

Global corporations now live in terror of the social media lynch mob.

Which is a good thing.

 

[Acker79]

[tweet]1284556646388293632[/tweet]

 

[Mo Gosfield]

We have passed through a period (let's say just the 20th Century, but obviously stretching back further) of rampant racism, sexism, bigotry and generally unsavoury behaviour/attitudes.
We (or at least many) have now lurched the other way and, while we briefly passed through a period of improvements in gay/women's/minority rights, it was only because the pendulum was swinging through that ideal point.

Cancel Culture represents the swing going too far but, it is a phase we'll pass through and things will return back to a better state soon.

Social media allows for a speed of change in society that we haven't experienced before and we haven't yet learnt to handle it properly.

Pretty harsh critique of the 20th century and earlier. The vast majority of people that I encountered in the last half of the 20th century didn't hold views like these. In the main, they were sensible and tolerant and not prone to over-reaction. You make it sound as if it was the Dark Ages, not a time of rapid advancement, enlightenment and aspiration. In the 21st century, thus far, educational standards have declined, society has continued to become more selfish and less tolerant.