British Rail-Who wants it back

[Guinness Boy]

sigh still not one person who has even tried to convince me this will lead to affordable fares for all.......is it a myth?

Er, the rail industry in Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Sweden, the Netherlands etc?

All with consistently lower fares than the UK.

There it is.....

 

[Barham's tash]

sigh still not one person who has even tried to convince me this will lead to affordable fares for all.......is it a myth?

Er, the rail industry in Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Sweden, the Netherlands etc?

All with consistently lower fares than the UK.

Ok, but do they run on a profitable basis or are they propped up by the tax payer?

 

[Diego Napier]

sigh still not one person who has even tried to convince me this will lead to affordable fares for all.......is it a myth?

Hah! No one rising to the bait eh?

Probably because too many know too well that virtually no one can influence another to person change their political or economic viewpoint through some random chat room discourse, let alone someone with the entrenched and strident opinions you have espoused over the years.

 

[pastafarian]

There it is.....

Really? thats the evidence......other countries do it so we will as well.

well im convinced


was rather hoping someone knew what they were talking about

 

[Ernest]

Ok, but do they run on a profitable basis or are they propped up by the tax payer?

Where do you think they get the cash to own large chunks of the British railway network from ?

 

[Eeyore]

I'm not a supporter of public services in private hands but there are things easily overlooked here.

The profit margins on the railways run at 3% or less, so if people think it means cheaper tickets they need to think again. Most of the rise in fares has been down to the government's reduction in subsidy- and the railways are heavily subsidised.

Most of the government investment, believe it or not, are for season tickets. Season tickets, generally and not exclusively, are bought by higher earners. So the government subsidy to this industry is not really helping Mr Average. I actually think that, for those who occasionally use the railways, things are a lot better than they were before. I remain unconvinced that re-nationalisation will improve things.

If someone can show me the error in my thinking then I'm happy to support it.

 

[Gwylan]

Ok, but do they run on a profitable basis or are they propped up by the tax payer?

The current network is propped up by the taxpayer to the tune of £4 billion (and rising). A good part of that goes to pay dividends to the shareholders, inflated salaries to the execs and huge amounts to the accountants and lawyers who draw up the contracts between all the different parts of the network. Most of these would vanish under a nationalised network

 

[Simster]

sigh still not one person who has even tried to convince me this will lead to affordable fares for all.......is it a myth?

It is, sort of. We are paying high fares now because of chronic underinvestment in the railways over the course of 40 years. Money only started pouring into railways in the 2000s. It had been left to rack and ruin for 40 years until then. Anyway, successive governments have taken the decision to make rail users pay for this much needed investment. It's a difficult one - on one hand, you can argue that subsidising passengers eases the burden on the road network. On the other, why should everybody else subsidise rail user's fares? From a personal point of view, I'd be happy if rail fare were subsidised but I do understand why they're not.

Ok, but do they run on a profitable basis or are they propped up by the tax payer?

They are propped up by the tax payer even now.

 

[Diego Napier]

Ok, but do they run on a profitable basis or are they propped up by the tax payer?

I think you'll have to define for me what you mean by "propped up by the tax payer".

Do you mean in the way that the NHS, or Defence or Education or Health etc. is propped up by the tax payer?

Or do you mean in the way that the Rail companies (with all their profits going to their shareholders) are propped up by the tax payer?

 

[Guinness Boy]

Really? thats the evidence......other countries do it so we will as well.

well im convinced


was rather hoping someone knew what they were talking about

If the railway had stayed nationalised there is simply no way an annual season ticket from Brighton to London would be £4,408. It wouldn't even be close to that. No shareholder profits needed.

 

[pastafarian]

Hah! No one rising to the bait eh?

Probably because too many know too well that virtually no one can influence another to person change their political or economic viewpoint through some random chat room discourse, let alone someone with the entrenched and strident opinions you have espoused over the years.

for what its worth diego i am open to the concept of nationalisation of the railways,its no secret i vote tory,i am genuinely interested if nationalisation will bring down fares to an affordable level for all and am quite prepared to support whatever camp if the evidence is solid on this issue.......sorry you feel im on some sort of wind up/fishing/tory idiot thingy on this issue

 

[Drumstick]

Er, the rail industry in Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Sweden, the Netherlands etc?

All with consistently lower fares than the UK.

Whenever I got/seen trains in France/Italy they tend to be old trains refurbished. Work perfect but not the latest tech. That's fine by me but many here seem to expect the best but pay pennies.

What we currently have is we pay the best and get average at best.

Something needs to be done. I'll stick to what I'm good at and let those who know their train stuff do theirs.

 

[Barham's tash]

The current network is propped up by the taxpayer to the tune of £4 billion (and rising). A good part of that goes to pay dividends to the shareholders, inflated salaries to the execs and huge amounts to the accountants and lawyers who draw up the contracts between all the different parts of the network. Most of these would vanish under a nationalised network

I know that happens here but I was referring to the foreign networks.

 

[Barham's tash]

I think you'll have to define for me what you mean by "propped up by the tax payer".

Do you mean in the way that the NHS, or Defence or Education or Health etc. is propped up by the tax payer?

Or do you mean in the way that the Rail companies (with all their profits going to their shareholders) are propped up by the tax payer?

Again, referring to the foreign networks. Not here.

 

[Cian]

Yes and employ German/Swiss Rail Managers to run it!

Arriva is already Deutsche Bahn and they're not fantastic...

 

[Tricky Dicky]

Not a chance. Certainly not perfect now but I remember all too well how goddamn awful British Rail was. You think it's bad now, it's nothing to what it used to be.

 

[Titanic]

I'm not a supporter of public services in private hands but there are things easily overlooked here.

The profit margins on the railways run at 3% or less, so if people think it means cheaper tickets they need to think again. Most of the rise in fares has been down to the government's reduction in subsidy- and the railways are heavily subsidised.

Most of the government investment, believe it or not, are for season tickets. Season tickets, generally and not exclusively, are bought by higher earners. So the government subsidy to this industry is not really helping Mr Average. I actually think that, for those who occasionally use the railways, things are a lot better than they were before. I remain unconvinced that re-nationalisation will improve things.

If someone can show me the error in my thinking then I'm happy to support it.

What a pity to let facts get in the way of the herd mentality.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Show me someone who states privatisation works, and I'll show you someone who is mental (or has their snout in the railways trough)

 

[pastafarian]

Show me someone who states privatisation works, and I'll show you someone who is mental (or has their snout in the railways trough)

is this a cryptic analysis? does this mean yes rail fares would reduce and become affordable for all if the network was nationalised.......i cant seem to get any definite conformation either way

 

[Horton's halftime iceberg]

For anyone who regularly uses the different companies I think their is only one way to go on this, and that is the change back may improve it from the current position. Not that my memory of BR was fantastic, trouble is what would nationalisation mean in real terms, more staff, a joined up system, affordable tickets, unified catering, new trains etc etc.

As a user, its currently overpriced at certain times, over crowded, under staffed, confusing when using more than one company and poor customer service if their is a problem.