British Rail-Who wants it back

[glasfryn]

I think we should turn it in to a more oligopolistic structure as opposed to the monopolistic structure we have now... Give people a choice in which services they use... Create competition...

bit like BT you mean who own all the telephone lines and British Gas who own transco who own all the gas supply lines

 

[goldstone]

Thankfully it will never happen, although the present model is far from perfect.

Incidentally, when did any nationalised industry work effectively?

 

[Guinness Boy]

“Our freedom of choice in a competitive society rests on the fact that, if one person refuses to satisfy our wishes, we can turn to another. But if we face a monopolist we are at his absolute mercy. And an authority directing the whole economic system of the country would be the most powerful monopolist conceivable…it would have complete power to decide what we are to be given and on what terms. It would not only decide what commodities and services were to be available and in what quantities; it would be able to direct their distributions between persons to any degree it liked.”
― Friedrich Hayek, The Road to Serfdom

Since you're a Brighton fan living in Kingston I presume you have used the trains on the Brighton mainline? The engineering and maintenance of the lines is done by ONE company (Network Rail). The trains are provided by ONE company. Technically the service is a Duopoloy but I can't go and ask Hitachi to run the lines and Stage Coach to provide me with a faster service up an exclusive line. It's exactly why the service is so shit.

Transport services should be for passengers not profit. Profit in the rest of the economy (and competition) I'm fine with btw but it makes no sense on the railway given this country's transport infrastructure.

 

[Simster]

“Our freedom of choice in a competitive society rests on the fact that, if one person refuses to satisfy our wishes, we can turn to another. But if we face a monopolist we are at his absolute mercy. And an authority directing the whole economic system of the country would be the most powerful monopolist conceivable…it would have complete power to decide what we are to be given and on what terms. It would not only decide what commodities and services were to be available and in what quantities; it would be able to direct their distributions between persons to any degree it liked.”
― Friedrich Hayek, The Road to Serfdom

Yes, brilliant. So how does privatising the rail network overcome the fact that it is still a monopoly? If I need to to get to London in the morning, I can't really choose which provider to go with an I?

 

[Ernest]

For example in the BR days if there was a problem like Friday nights getting to the match, the station master at Brighton would ring up the depot ask them to get a train or 2 ready, ring up the Train Crew Foreman and get a crew ready and in 20 minutes or earlier a train would be at Brighton ready to get going as soon as it was loaded.

Now if you wanted to run an extra service, the control at Three Bridges would have to ask Network Rail for the pathway, once that has been agreed then they would ring the depot to see if any stock was available then they would have to ring the manager at the Train Crew depot to see if there was a crew that could be used. Once that was sorted maybe you would get an extra train, or more likely not.

BR wasn't perfect by a long way but privatisation has been a total and utter shambles from the day it started and the people that suffer are the punters who put up with a crap service and extortionate fares.

 

[Nibble]

Both methods have their pitfalls and their merits. However, one overriding reason we will never have a rail system to rival most other developed countries comes down to room. Our railway infrastructure is dilapidated, out of date, crumbling. In other countries were there is space and not so much emphasis on greenbelt conservation, when something needs updating or repairing they simply build new sections of track, new airport, new rail stations and then switch everything over, causing minimal disruption.



Here, we simply don't have the space or the inclination to do that. As a result, everything has to keep running while it is repaired, it's akin to attempting to change the tyre on a car while it's still moving. No matter who runs the railway, it will never come up to the standard of most other countries. Just look at the shambles the London Bridge upgrade has caused.

 

[Justice]

Bring back Harry Clipper

 

[attila]

Without compensation

 

[pastafarian]

Yes and employ German/Swiss Rail Managers to run it!

i was going to a rural Swiss station a couple of months ago,unfortunately there was a landslide ahead and the service came to a halt at the last station before the incident,The poor Swiss were quite confused by the whole situation that there was a possibility the train was going to arrive not on schedule. Amazingly within 5 minutes a fleet of buses and taxis arrived to take people on to their destination for free.I was the only bloke supposed to be getting off at that stop so one taxi took me directly to the house i was staying at,i arrived before the scheduled train time.....thats Swiss train network for you

 

[Guinness Boy]

i was going to a rural Swiss station a couple of months ago,unfortunately there was a landslide ahead and the service came to a halt at the last station before the incident,The poor Swiss were quite confused by the whole situation that there was a possibility the train was going to arrive not on schedule. Amazingly within 5 minutes a fleet of buses and taxis arrived to take people on to their destination for free.I was the only bloke supposed to be getting off at that stop so one taxi took me directly to the house i was staying at,i arrived before the scheduled train time.....thats Swiss train network for you

They do have a few ticketing issues though....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21294241

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Rail track (network rail) was re-nationalised last year....it's a basket case already......

The track owner needs to be integrated with the service providers and the people who own the trains. It's the structure of the industry that is wrong, not just the ownership.

 

[pastafarian]

BR wasn't perfect by a long way but privatisation has been a total and utter shambles from the day it started and the people that suffer are the punters who put up with a crap service and extortionate fares.

Lets not forget the employees who also lost out when it was privatised,the ones that could no longer rob the taxpayer by screwing the ticketing system and dishing out free rail travel to their mates to go and watch the Albion away.

lets not forget those fallen comrades eh ernest

 

[Deadly Danson]

Both methods have their pitfalls and their merits. However, one overriding reason we will never have a rail system to rival most other developed countries comes down to room. Our railway infrastructure is dilapidated, out of date, crumbling. In other countries were there is space and not so much emphasis on greenbelt conservation, when something needs updating or repairing they simply build new sections of track, new airport, new rail stations and then switch everything over, causing minimal disruption.



Here, we simply don't have the space or the inclination to do that. As a result, everything has to keep running while it is repaired, it's akin to attempting to change the tyre on a car while it's still moving. No matter who runs the railway, it will never come up to the standard of most other countries. Just look at the shambles the London Bridge upgrade has caused.

100% correct. It's virtually impossible to see how things can dramatically improve with or without privatisation. If we had a spare 20 years where no one travelled by train we could rip it all up and start again.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

The joke is that the two "competing" TOCs down here are both owned by the same company

Proper competition would mean that anyone who bought a Thameslink ticket would be banned from travelling on a Southern train.

NOBODY wants that, Shirley?

 

[Ernest]

Lets not forget the employees who also lost out when it was privatised,the ones that could no longer rob the taxpayer by screwing the ticketing system and dishing out free rail travel to their mates to go and watch the Albion away.

lets not forget those fallen comrades eh ernest

When was that then ? I've known plenty of people sacked over the years for fiddling tickets to take their mates to matches for free

 

[Diego Napier]

Rail track (network rail) was re-nationalised last year....it's a basket case already......

It was a basket case before it was nationalised.....

 

[Codner pharmaceuticals]

Interesting that a guy who has dropped out of University and then been a career politician now feels he is fit to run large national companies. I am all for idealism but this has to come with reality and the ability to deliver successfully.

 

[SweatyMexican]

banks and utilities as well
yes please

What are you? Some kind of commie?

 

[pastafarian]

sigh still not one person who has even tried to convince me this will lead to affordable fares for all.......is it a myth?

 

[Diego Napier]

Thankfully it will never happen, although the present model is far from perfect.

Incidentally, when did any nationalised industry work effectively?

Er, the rail industry in Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Sweden, the Netherlands etc?

All with consistently lower fares than the UK.