BRIGHTON fans doing nothing for our reputation again

[Turkey]

Link here from an old post of mine r.e. Soton Fans arrest.

http://www.northstandchat.biz/showthread.php?threadid=24016

 

[Uncle Buck]

If it didn't happen they would have nothing to report on - a la World Cup 2002.

Which must have really wound them up, all the English behaving, hardly sells papers. I am not saying it did not happen, I have seen the pictures on TV and I have seen it many times before, however the slant often given by your profession is has a habit of going down the scum route, which a lot of these people are but forgetting to point out at times that there were factors that caused the trouble and focus on the fact that the English caused the trouble. Euro 2000 was the classic, Brussels on the Friday was sporting, although not as bad as Marseille and the English played up. However the papers in the whole failed to mention that the local Turks came out to play. Also several 100 got deported that night and we got the headlines about this, what it did not mention until later was that people had just been rounded up after the OB had CS gased bars or the fact that a lot of these people had done nothing and a lot got their deportations overturned.

 

[34064 Fighter Command]

' Innocent until proven guilty ' is all very well and good.

He has been found guilty in a court of law by a Portuguese judge.

If he were innocent, he would have been acquited along with the three who were, would you not expect ?

The BBC quoted :

" Most of the men claimed they were innocent bystanders caught up in a confrontation with the police, and denied throwing anything.

But most were identified as troublemakers by one or more of the many police witnesses to appear in court. "

There you are, identified by witnesses in a court of law.

If the whole thing was a stitch up, then the three who were acquited would have been found guilty.

 

[saltash seagull]

Unfortunately Gazwag, the papers can only report the facts and as they stand this morning they are that a Brighton and Hove Albion fan received a suspended sentence for fighting in Portugal. I agree with what you say about if he is proved to be innocent, but I can't see how that could ever happen. He has got the weight of the Portuguese police and legal ststem against him and unless he has someone videoing him throughout the whole incident he will find it near impossible to get the conviction quashed.

exactly wat i was thinking rob how is he suppose to prove his innocence?
i read on teletext that they had offered the 7 the choice or staying in portugal and facing trial or being deported well unfortunatly the only way he would have been able to prove his innocence would be to have stayed but then there would have probably only been a small chance and they would have made his life hell !! if he is innocent i feel so sorry for andrew

 

[Uncle Buck]

' Innocent until proven guilty ' is all very well and good.

He has been found guilty in a court of law by a Portuguese judge.

If he were innocent, he would have been acquited along with the three who were, would you not expect ?

The BBC quoted :

" Most of the men claimed they were innocent bystanders caught up in a confrontation with the police, and denied throwing anything.

But most were identified as troublemakers by one or more of the many police witnesses to appear in court. "

There you are, identified by witnesses in a court of law.

If the whole thing was a stitch up, then the three who were acquited would have been found guilty.

To be honest the whole thing seems like a bit of a kangeroo court, convicted within 2 days of the offence, what chance do you have of putting a viable defence together in that time?

 

[Bozza]

' Innocent until proven guilty ' is all very well and good.

He has been found guilty in a court of law by a Portuguese judge.

If he were innocent, he would have been acquited along with the three who were, would you not expect ?

The BBC quoted :

" Most of the men claimed they were innocent bystanders caught up in a confrontation with the police, and denied throwing anything.

But most were identified as troublemakers by one or more of the many police witnesses to appear in court. "

There you are, identified by witnesses in a court of law.

If the whole thing was a stitch up, then the three who were acquited would have been found guilty.

When I wrote about 'innocent until proven guilty' it was before he had been found guilty, or at least before I had read reports saying such. Apologies for taking that standpoint - may I rot in hell for doing so.

How on earth cases both for the prosecution and for the defence can be built in so little time, especially in a foreign land where the language and legal system are alien to the accused is beyond me. And I note you chose not to quote any of the following...

"BBC News Online's Duncan Walker, inside the court, said some fans had complained they felt they had not had proper access to adequate legal representation."

"There were also reports that they had struggled to understand the translation of the proceedings."

"Many fans had claimed the police were too heavy-handed"

I'm not going to say any more on this subject, as I simply can not believe how much delight others seem to be taking in the misfortunes of others.

 

[34064 Fighter Command]

I suspect much of this was because the Portuguese wanted them out of the Country as soon as possible, whether convicted or not.

At the end of the day it is only a suspended sentence, provided he continues with his good behaviour ( as most people believe he is likely to do ) then his most severe punishment will be a nationwide ban from all football matches. It may be unfair on him, but it is much less worse than a 2 year sentence inside.

I'm not taking any delight in seeing a fellow Albion fan being convicted. In fact it may well be a travesty of justice.

If it has any affect on the campaign for or against Falmer we may all end up being punished.

 

[Uncle Buck]

I suspect much of this was because the Portuguese wanted them out of the Country as soon as possible, whether convicted or not.

At the end of the day it is only a suspended sentence, provided he continues with his good behaviour ( as most people believe he is likely to do ) then his most severe punishment will be a nationwide ban from all football matches. It may be unfair on him, but it is much less worse than a 2 year sentence inside.

I'm not taking any delight in seeing a fellow Albion fan being convicted. In fact it may well be a travesty of justice.

If it has any affect on the campaign for or against Falmer we may all end up being punished.

But his name has been all over the press, so he will proably lose his job. Now if guilty then you get everything you ask for, however certainly in Brussels there was a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time and being rounded up.

 

[34064 Fighter Command]

But he may have to disclose any criminal conviction to his employer anyway. Or his employer might take the view that this is unrelated to his employment ( given I assume that he was on genuine leave of absence whilst in Portugal ).

Maybe his employer will take the view he is too valuable to be dismissed, many people are convicted of worse offences and allowed to keep their job. The fact the sentence was suspended likely reflects mitigating circumstances - it's usually the case for people of previous good character that they are given suspended sentences.

But it underlines my point about him being reckless in chosing to be ' in the wrong place at the wrong time '.

 

[saltash seagull]

But his name has been all over the press, so he will proably lose his job. Now if guilty then you get everything you ask for, however certainly in Brussels there was a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time and being rounded up.

right there uncle buck if guilty he does deserve everything he gets lost job,trouble getting into certain countries and trouble following the albion around but if he is innocent then the bad press is probably gonna mean he'll have all these things hanging over his head anyway!! only he knows the real truth of wat happened

 

[Uncle Buck]

But he may have to disclose any criminal conviction to his employer anyway. Or his employer might take the view that this is unrelated to his employment ( given I assume that he was on genuine leave of absence whilst in Portugal ).

Maybe his employer will take the view he is too valuable to be dismissed, many people are convicted of worse offences and allowed to keep their job. The fact the sentence was suspended likely reflects mitigating circumstances - it's usually the case for people of previous good character that they are given suspended sentences.

But it underlines my point about him being reckless in chosing to be ' in the wrong place at the wrong time '.

However after France 98, Paddington Blair did push for employers to dismiss any of their employees that were involved in the trouble, if this is still the line and the fact that his name has been in the press, he could be up the proverbial creek without a paddle.

 

[Dave the OAP]

"If it has any affect on the campaign for or against Falmer we may all end up being punished."

Now I have heard it all. We are worried about one guy who has been ejected from a foreign tournement involving England and just because he happens to be a " Chelsea and Brighton fan - as per his Grandmother in the Argus" this will affect our falmer application.

I am getting sick of this ....do anything and we wont get Falmer stuff. This is all shite

 

[saltash seagull]

But he may have to disclose any criminal conviction to his employer anyway. Or his employer might take the view that this is unrelated to his employment ( given I assume that he was on genuine leave of absence whilst in Portugal ).

Maybe his employer will take the view he is too valuable to be dismissed, many people are convicted of worse offences and allowed to keep their job. The fact the sentence was suspended likely reflects mitigating circumstances - it's usually the case for people of previous good character that they are given suspended sentences.

But it underlines my point about him being reckless in chosing to be ' in the wrong place at the wrong time '.

you keep on about him being in the place were there had been trouble the night before but wasn't this on the 1st night of trouble that 12 were arrested of which he was 1? the 2nd nite 34 got arrested didnt they? and if there had been no trouble the previous nights how the hell was he suppose to know it was gonna kick off?

 

[Lord Bracknell]

Having once had the opportunity to sift through hours of police video evidence and eventually establish that a serious assault charge had been brought against the wrong person, I can confirm that the process of gathering and presenting convincing evidence can be extremely time consuming.

It's hard enough when you're dealing with the fairly leisurely pace of the English legal system and you have the facilities of Brighton Police Station and a solicitor made available to you. Achieving the same outcome in a foreign country would be a very daunting prospect. Just assembling the available evidence (witnesses, video records, other photographic evidence, etc) would take a considerable time - if it was possible at all.

In the long term, nobody is best advised to admit guilt in order to get out quickly. But it is perfectly understandable why people do so without properly considering the consequences.

In this case, on the basis of what I have read about the individual concerned (and the sources of that information), I am prepared to forgo condemning him as a hoolie. Unfortunately, I suspect that the UK authorities (including the football authorities) won't be inclined to take a similarly sympathetic view.

 

[34064 Fighter Command]

Well it certainly isn't good PR for the club is it ?

 

[Dave the OAP]

what do you mean isn't good PR for the club?

IT IS NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH THE CLUB

WHY ARE YOU TRYING TO TURN IT INTO A BRIGHTON AND HOVE ALBION THING

JESUS

 

[Uncle Buck]

Well it certainly isn't good PR for the club is it ?

Well, the fact is football hooliganism, like ticket touts and dumplings exists. Also guess what this club has hoolies and they do darken our name now and then.

 

[34064 Fighter Command]

you keep on about him being in the place were there had been trouble the night before but wasn't this on the 1st night of trouble that 12 were arrested of which he was 1? the 2nd nite 34 got arrested didnt they? and if there had been no trouble the previous nights how the hell was he suppose to know it was gonna kick off?

Your absolutely right, I stand corrected.

 

[Simster]

you keep on about him being in the place were there had been trouble the night before but wasn't this on the 1st night of trouble that 12 were arrested of which he was 1? the 2nd nite 34 got arrested didnt they? and if there had been no trouble the previous nights how the hell was he suppose to know it was gonna kick off?

I, too, stand corrected.

Those who suggest we should be giving him a break are right and I should have known better. My apologies for not reading the facts properly.

I would have had far less sympathy if he was convicted last night as apparently there were 40 blokes bent on trouble in the same trouble spot. However this guy was there on the first night so it does seem he could easily have been in the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

[Caveman]

The sort of behavior that got these guys arrested was probably no different to what happens on a smaller scale most weekends in cities all around the world. This was in a tourist area and the media are blowing the whole situation well out of hand.

Not that I’m condoning it, just think the press should, from time to time be had-up for incitement.