[Politics] Brexit

[Thunder Bolt]

Makes sense though. I just don't know why it wasn't done decades ago.

The Irish sea is full of dumped munitions from the wars, and the seabed is solid granite unlike the soft chalk of the English Channel seabed. It is complete and utter nonsense.

 

[WATFORD zero]

'Put the hallucinogenics down': Prospect of undersea tunnel between Scotland and Northern Ireland debunked

Conservative MP Simon Hoare, chairman of the Northern Ireland Select Committee, yesterday dismissed the idea of an undersea tunnel as fanciful and said the government's focus should be on making the protocol work.

"The trains could be pulled by an inexhaustible herd of Unicorns overseen by stern, officious dodos," he tweeted."A PushmePullYou could be the senior guard and Puff the Magic Dragon the inspector. Let’s concentrate on making the protocol work and put the hallucinogenics down."

He later tweeted that there are several practical barriers in the way of the rail project.

"Also another 'minor hurdle' is the NI railway gauge is an 'all Ireland' gauge which is different to that used in GB," he tweeted. "I’m not Brunel but I think this might be a bit of a problem."

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19090665.put-hallucinogenics-down-prospect-undersea-tunnel-scotland-northern-ireland-debunked/

It appears Johnson and his Cabinet have joined the 'ANYTHING BUT BREXIT' brigade

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Nice lucrative contracts afoot for friends of the cabinet.... Gove + Friends tunnel digging company Ltd (est. yesterday)

The Irish sea is full of dumped munitions from the wars.

Here’s hoping.

 

[nicko31]

'Put the hallucinogenics down': Prospect of undersea tunnel between Scotland and Northern Ireland debunked

Conservative MP Simon Hoare, chairman of the Northern Ireland Select Committee, yesterday dismissed the idea of an undersea tunnel as fanciful and said the government's focus should be on making the protocol work.

"The trains could be pulled by an inexhaustible herd of Unicorns overseen by stern, officious dodos," he tweeted."A PushmePullYou could be the senior guard and Puff the Magic Dragon the inspector. Let’s concentrate on making the protocol work and put the hallucinogenics down."

He later tweeted that there are several practical barriers in the way of the rail project.

"Also another 'minor hurdle' is the NI railway gauge is an 'all Ireland' gauge which is different to that used in GB," he tweeted. "I’m not Brunel but I think this might be a bit of a problem."

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19090665.put-hallucinogenics-down-prospect-undersea-tunnel-scotland-northern-ireland-debunked/

It appears Johnson and his Cabinet have joined the 'ANYTHING BUT BREXIT' brigade

I must admit I snipped the Telegragh headline from twitter and thought it might be a spoof (one of remoaners taking the piss), but it does seem it really is genuine

 

[Thunder Bolt]

'Put the hallucinogenics down': Prospect of undersea tunnel between Scotland and Northern Ireland debunked

Conservative MP Simon Hoare, chairman of the Northern Ireland Select Committee, yesterday dismissed the idea of an undersea tunnel as fanciful and said the government's focus should be on making the protocol work.

"The trains could be pulled by an inexhaustible herd of Unicorns overseen by stern, officious dodos," he tweeted."A PushmePullYou could be the senior guard and Puff the Magic Dragon the inspector. Let’s concentrate on making the protocol work and put the hallucinogenics down."

He later tweeted that there are several practical barriers in the way of the rail project.

"Also another 'minor hurdle' is the NI railway gauge is an 'all Ireland' gauge which is different to that used in GB," he tweeted. "I’m not Brunel but I think this might be a bit of a problem."

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19090665.put-hallucinogenics-down-prospect-undersea-tunnel-scotland-northern-ireland-debunked/

It appears Johnson and his Cabinet have joined the 'ANYTHING BUT BREXIT' brigade

It's just another of Johnson's dead cats. What is needed is to look away from the table, to see what is going on elsewhere.

 

[sydney]

It's just another of Johnson's dead cats. What is needed is to look away from the table, to see what is going on elsewhere.

you're on the right track there hun...

 

[Lincoln Imp]

The old NI Bridge routine wheeled out again and re-branded.

Johnson likes to moot it when he wants to placate the unionists. It's always later shelved.

It might be about placating the Unionists but to me it looks like a straightforward Indyref2 ploy. Johnson wants a huge Scottish infrastructure project on the table so he can assure the Scots that it will really happen if they vote No to independence, and definitely won't if they say Yes.

If they vote No he'll simply go back on his word.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

It is rather pointless arguing about it though.
We are worlds apart with our views on the importance of sovereign issues, we will never comprehend each others opinions on sovereignty and control issues re the EU. You in essence dont view them as important and i do.

I think sovereignty is very important. It's a nuanced issue though. In any case I'm not convinced that anyone voting for a party that signed an international treaty committing the country to controls over goods moving around within its own borders can claim any sort of high ground on the subject.

 

[vegster]

Fair point and as you can see my original response was not to take it seriously. Something of this magnitude would usually be explored via a cost-benefit analysis and clearly none of us have the resources to undertake such an exercise. But that's never stopped anyone on NSC from expressing an opinion so here goes

My initial concerns would be

- the sheer cost given that the trade benefits would never be anyway near those of the channel tunnel (with or without Brexit)

- the near certainty that any initial costings and timings would be huge under-estimates (just look at HS2)

- the Scottish point of exit/entry's accessibility to the rest of Britain, but mostly

- the initial idea is a Johnson stunt (vanity project - a la lots of Johnson's project such as the garden Bridge?) and really has more to do with the failure of his Brexit deal to deliver to NI i.e. the motivation seem to be to get him out of a (short term?) hole by digging an enormous long term hole

The idea of a link has been looked at before. but then it was via a bridge. Apparently a tunnel would be both cheaper and more technically feasible.

On a side note, I gather the SNP is in favour of this; which might just be enough to make Johnson drop the idea. (If Scotland got it's independence, I'm not sure how that would place what's left of Britain in terms of access to such a tunnel. Would it be a Scottish national asset?)

Isn't there a problem by way of all the unsafe conventional and chemical WW2 munitions dumped in that area?

 

[A1X]

I think sovereignty is very important. It's a nuanced issue though. In any case I'm not convinced that anyone voting for a party that signed an international treaty committing the country to controls over goods moving around within its own borders can claim any sort of high ground on the subject.

It's a bit like individual freedom. Sure, you can be as individually free as you like, if you're prepared to live in a cave somewhere drinking the water out of local springs and living off moss and the odd bird you can take down with a spear. But if you want to have any of the trappings of modern society then by definition that involves some surrender of that "total freedom" as a price to pay for participation. At the very basic level is the adherence to the laws of society. Then if you want to use a bank account there's surrender of freedom involved (the bank can track your activities). Smart phone / internet usage adds a whole raft of impingements on freedom. So does a job. And house ownership. In fact, before you know it, "freedom" is very much an illusion in a modern society.

Sovereignty is not unlike this. You can live in blissful isolation and not participate in the world around you if you want. But the more you want to be involved in stuff the more "sovereignty" you need to hand over as the cost.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

It's like tuning into the muppet show every day ... all my favourite characters, all the same lines [emoji106]

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk

 

[Thunder Bolt]

It's a bit like individual freedom. Sure, you can be as individually free as you like, if you're prepared to live in a cave somewhere drinking the water out of local springs and living off moss and the odd bird you can take down with a spear. But if you want to have any of the trappings of modern society then by definition that involves some surrender of that "total freedom" as a price to pay for participation. At the very basic level is the adherence to the laws of society. Then if you want to use a bank account there's surrender of freedom involved (the bank can track your activities). Smart phone / internet usage adds a whole raft of impingements on freedom. So does a job. And house ownership. In fact, before you know it, "freedom" is very much an illusion in a modern society.

Sovereignty is not unlike this. You can live in blissful isolation and not participate in the world around you if you want. But the more you want to be involved in stuff the more "sovereignty" you need to hand over as the cost.

A good description of sovereignty. Do we get a referendum on leaving the United Nations (with its pesky Refugee ruling of 1951) or NATO? Both of which mean ceding a small amount of sovereignty, but not as much as quitters like to think.

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

Isn't there a problem by way of all the unsafe conventional and chemical WW2 munitions dumped in that area?

No worries: we can send Johnson on the first train through.

 

[A1X]

A good description of sovereignty. Do we get a referendum on leaving the United Nations (with its pesky Refugee ruling of 1951) or NATO? Both of which mean ceding a small amount of sovereignty, but not as much as quitters like to think.

NATO is actually a fascinating example, especially as it arguably has a much bigger impact on sovereignty as it demands that a certain amount of GDP be spent on a specific element of Government policy, something EU membership never explicitly did. And yet you never hear the argument made by most of the Brexiters (outside the hardcore left-wing Brexiters of the George Galloway ilk) that we should leave it. It's almost like their problem isn't actually with the sovereignty aspect but something else they can't (or won't) elaborate on.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

NATO is actually a fascinating example, especially as it arguably has a much bigger impact on sovereignty as it demands that a certain amount of GDP be spent on a specific element of Government policy, something EU membership never explicitly did. And yet you never hear the argument made by most of the Brexiters (outside the hardcore left-wing Brexiters of the George Galloway ilk) that we should leave it. It's almost like their problem isn't actually with the sovereignty aspect but something else they can't (or won't) elaborate on.

Being a member of the United Nations means we have to pay Foreign Aid at 0.7 of gross national income.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Jesus wept, I thought pretending that CPTPP membership was the same as EU membership was unbelievably stupid but today we have plumbed new depths ... NATO, UN membership virtually the same as EU membership [emoji2960]

Remainers better educated/ informed my hairy arse .....

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk

 

[nicko31]

Brexit headbanger Steve Baker on Radio 4 Today programme this morning...

national decisions should only be made after careful, treasury led, cost-benefit analyses that are made public

Oh the irony....

 

[A1X]

Brexit headbanger Steve Baker on Radio 4 Today programme this morning...

national decisions should only be made after careful, treasury led, cost-benefit analyses that are made public

Oh the irony....

I guess this means we can chalk up "Irony" as yet another victim of the pandemic

 

[A1X]

Jesus wept, I thought pretending that CPTPP membership was the same as EU membership was unbelievably stupid but today we have plumbed new depths ... NATO, UN membership virtually the same as EU membership

NATO and UN membership both place upon the Government a strict, unamendable rule that a certain percentage of GDP has to be spent on a specific thing. Can you point out where the EU did similar? Clearly you believe yourself to be better informed than I am on this matter so I look forward to hearing it.

 

[nicko31]

You may.
I have an interest in a food wholesale business, run by one of my sons. A fish and chip shop and a property letting business.

Sounds like I'm alright jack. Not so much fun if you work in the UK fashion industry...

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...s-brexit-uk-eu-trading?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other