[Politics] Brexit

[Pretty pink fairy]

Ah, the saddest, thickest moron on this site has popped his spotty simple little head above the parapet to confirm my beliefs are the right ones. If I was a Brexiter, I'd cringe whenever you posted in my defence. I wonder if the more intelligent Brexiters do exactly that?

The Battle has been won it's a case of clearing the dead bodies and removing the lingering smells

Blue passports, our of the control of the ECJ points based entry into the UK ,no benefit claims for the first five years, out of the single market/ customs union ,reclaiming our waters all seems very Sovereign
Regards
DF

 

[Chicken Run]

Ah, the saddest, thickest moron on this site has popped his spotty simple little head above the parapet to confirm my beliefs are the right ones. If I was a Brexiter, I'd cringe whenever you posted in my defence. I wonder if the more intelligent Brexiters do exactly that?

Nah [emoji23]

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

Well you did ask.
My partner works in the UK fashion industry and is feeling it particularly hard, so I am not without sympathy. I don't know your background but I was digging swimming pools aged 18-20, worked on building sites, night shift in a bakery, tree surgery, house painting, grass cutting and made fibre-glass car parts and fish ponds. When I wasn't doing that, me and my mates were getting pissed, chasing girls and setting light to any Tory sign in the lead up to elections. Listening to Neil Young and the Grateful Dead, marvelling over Hendrix and railing against the Establishment. We wanted to change the world, thought Nixon was a scumbag and thought the Common Market was a good idea. We hitch-hiked for weeks, rucksacks and guitars, slept rough, through Europe and down to Greece or N Africa. We saw a lot, learnt a lot, met many people, broadened our minds and got brilliant suntans.
That was me earlier in life. No real responsibility then. Worked hardish, played very hard. Gambled a lot ( Horses, Dogs, Casino ) Easy come, easy go but that doesn't last forever. Wife, kids, house, regular money...priority.
Never a case of...." I'm alright jack ".....Divorce came along later in life. Wiped me out. Like a single bloke again. Lost big money in a failed venture. So I am currently, late in life, trying to build myself up again and will have to work well into my 70's. There will be no retirement for me. Cashed in any investments I had to try and rebuild.
So unless you really know someone, you don't know their circumstances. Its easy to speculate but often, we get it wrong. I learnt that lesson a long time ago. Aplogies for all of that and nothing to do with Brexit but we all post away on here and make assumptions about people, we know nothing about.

Thanks for this. Sometimes on this thread in particular it's all to easy to jump to conclusions, especially about those who are in a different camp to our own. One of my best mates has always been a pretty hard core Brexiteer and I regret that over the years I've let it come between us. (He's also a Millwall fan, but I've forgiven that rather more easily!)

 

[nicko31]

Thanks for this. Sometimes on this thread in particular it's all to easy to jump to conclusions, especially about those who are in a different camp to our own. One of my best mates has always been a pretty hard core Brexiteer and I regret that over the years I've let it come between us. (He's also a Millwall fan, but I've forgiven that rather more easily!)

I remember there was a huge showdown in my family the day after the referendum (not involving myself I should add) it resulted is Brexit not getting mentioned for over 2 years, there was a lot of tension over that period that has since eased

 

[WATFORD zero]

Ah, the saddest, thickest moron on this site has popped his spotty simple little head above the parapet to confirm my beliefs are the right ones. If I was a Brexiter, I'd cringe whenever you posted in my defence. I wonder if the more intelligent Brexiters do exactly that?

Nah [emoji23]

The question was actually aimed at Brexiteers more intelligent than Ppf. I'm pretty sure we haven't had any of those post since it became clear what the detail of the Brexit negotiated actually was

 

[JC Footy Genius]

It really is irrelevant. If your belief is the principle Westminster sovereign powers should remain in Westminster and not be ceded to Brussels all in the name of pooled EU sovereignty, then it is completely irrelevant if the Tories are in government or its Labour or Lib Dems or even Lord Buckethead.
You have let yourself down here, it is daft to want sovereign powers given to the EU because you view it as some sort of security blanket against an elected government that you didn’t want yourself or because your personal choice is such a minority it is never likely to be elected into power.
You have gone beyond floundering and have beached yourself.

I remember a few people on here voicing a similar view during the referendum campaign eg voting remain because they wanted the EU to restrict and limit the actions of a democratically elected UK (Tory obvs) government.

Addressing the other point, blaming the media or rich billionaires doesn't hold as there were several newspapers backing Remain, the government (machine), the official opposition and most other parties backed Remain, most of big business backed Remain plus the spending during the campaign clearly favoured one side...

Such fun going over this all again isn't it ....

 

[JC Footy Genius]

I remember there was a huge showdown in my family the day after the referendum (not involving myself I should add) it resulted is Brexit not getting mentioned for over 2 years, there was a lot of tension over that period that has since eased

It must have been a blessed relief for your family that you don't carry on like you do on here ...

 

[nicko31]

Vote Leave's Greatest Lies as told by Johnson, Gove, Raab, Hannan, Davis...

https://twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/status/1358367608630837248

And Brexit is going to cost the economy £45B over the next 2 years, over 4 times as much as the EU

 

[Chicken Run]

The question was actually aimed at Brexiteers more intelligent than Ppf. I'm pretty sure we haven't had any of those post since it became clear what the detail of the Brexit negotiated actually was

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[JC Footy Genius]

The UK economy did not suffer a bigger contraction than the eurozone last year after all. The narrative of a particularly British fiasco – believed by the London media, and the world – is essentially untrue.

It never made sense that the UK’s output figures should have been exceptionally disastrous. We now have the data, and we can see more clearly that it never happened. It was a story of apples and oranges.

“The UK actually outperformed other countries in Europe slightly if you look at nominal GDP, and we’re expecting another outperformance this year,” says David Owen from the US bank Jefferies.

The like-for-like nominal GDP contraction was 10pc in Spain, 6.2pc in France, 4.8pc in the UK, 3.8pc in Germany, and 2.3pc in the US. This alters the historical verdict on the Johnson government and the British Sonderweg – to borrow a German term.

Neil Shearing from Capital Economics reaches the same broad conclusion. “We’re clustered in the middle of the pack with Germany, France, and Italy. We might beat some of the others and get back to pre-pandemic levels by the end of this year, if there are no nasty surprises,” he said.

Confusion over past data is due to measurement models. The Office for National Statistics deducts a fall in visits to the doctor and reduced classes at school from accrued GDP. Most other countries do not. They tend to calculate extra health spending as a boost to GDP. Hence a giant anomaly.

This is well-understood by the economics fraternity. It has been badly misunderstood by the lay commentariat. What we have had is an epidemic of bogus quantification. The illusory effect will reverse on the way up. The UK’s headline growth figures will be flattered – and look ridiculous – by mirror-image effect.

“The economy is poised like a coiled spring. As its energies are released, the recovery should be one to remember after a year to forget,” says Andy Haldane, the Bank of England’s chief economist.

“A year from now annual growth could be in double-digits,” he says. Households have amassed “accidental savings” of £125bn, and have paid down consumer debts by £20bn. Companies have a war chest of £100bn. Mr Haldane thinks a large chunk of this money is going to flood back into the real economy rapidly.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/02/16/brexit-britain-will-beat-eurozone-recovery-year/

Quite a different perspective than the one usually peddled on here ...

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

I remember there was a huge showdown in my family the day after the referendum (not involving myself I should add) it resulted is Brexit not getting mentioned for over 2 years, there was a lot of tension over that period that has since eased

https://youtu.be/EpEkaGJnkAk
Regards
DF

 

[nicko31]

The UK economy did not suffer a bigger contraction than the eurozone last year after all. The narrative of a particularly British fiasco – believed by the London media, and the world – is essentially untrue.

It never made sense that the UK’s output figures should have been exceptionally disastrous. We now have the data, and we can see more clearly that it never happened. It was a story of apples and oranges.

“The UK actually outperformed other countries in Europe slightly if you look at nominal GDP, and we’re expecting another outperformance this year,” says David Owen from the US bank Jefferies.

The like-for-like nominal GDP contraction was 10pc in Spain, 6.2pc in France, 4.8pc in the UK, 3.8pc in Germany, and 2.3pc in the US. This alters the historical verdict on the Johnson government and the British Sonderweg – to borrow a German term.

Neil Shearing from Capital Economics reaches the same broad conclusion. “We’re clustered in the middle of the pack with Germany, France, and Italy. We might beat some of the others and get back to pre-pandemic levels by the end of this year, if there are no nasty surprises,” he said.

Confusion over past data is due to measurement models. The Office for National Statistics deducts a fall in visits to the doctor and reduced classes at school from accrued GDP. Most other countries do not. They tend to calculate extra health spending as a boost to GDP. Hence a giant anomaly.

This is well-understood by the economics fraternity. It has been badly misunderstood by the lay commentariat. What we have had is an epidemic of bogus quantification. The illusory effect will reverse on the way up. The UK’s headline growth figures will be flattered – and look ridiculous – by mirror-image effect.

“The economy is poised like a coiled spring. As its energies are released, the recovery should be one to remember after a year to forget,” says Andy Haldane, the Bank of England’s chief economist.

“A year from now annual growth could be in double-digits,” he says. Households have amassed “accidental savings” of £125bn, and have paid down consumer debts by £20bn. Companies have a war chest of £100bn. Mr Haldane thinks a large chunk of this money is going to flood back into the real economy rapidly.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/02/16/brexit-britain-will-beat-eurozone-recovery-year/

Quite a different perspective than the one usually peddled on here ...

Ignore the ONS folks, its bollocks. Listen to the non-doms at the Telegraph instead...

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Ignore the ONS folks, its bollocks. Listen to the non-doms at the Telegraph instead...

Good news for the UK = bad news for nicko .... same old same old.

 

[nicko31]

Good news for the UK = bad news for nicko .... same old same old.

This is nothing to do with Brexit JC, or are you suggesting this is a Brexit dividend?

 

[JC Footy Genius]

This is nothing to do with Brexit JC, or are you suggesting this is a Brexit dividend?

You might have to adjust your anti-UK narrative now nicko, just like you did with the covid figures to portray us as the worst in Europe/world.

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

The UK economy did not suffer a bigger contraction than the eurozone last year after all. The narrative of a particularly British fiasco – believed by the London media, and the world – is essentially untrue.

It never made sense that the UK’s output figures should have been exceptionally disastrous. We now have the data, and we can see more clearly that it never happened. It was a story of apples and oranges.

“The UK actually outperformed other countries in Europe slightly if you look at nominal GDP, and we’re expecting another outperformance this year,” says David Owen from the US bank Jefferies.

The like-for-like nominal GDP contraction was 10pc in Spain, 6.2pc in France, 4.8pc in the UK, 3.8pc in Germany, and 2.3pc in the US. This alters the historical verdict on the Johnson government and the British Sonderweg – to borrow a German term.

Neil Shearing from Capital Economics reaches the same broad conclusion. “We’re clustered in the middle of the pack with Germany, France, and Italy. We might beat some of the others and get back to pre-pandemic levels by the end of this year, if there are no nasty surprises,” he said.

Confusion over past data is due to measurement models. The Office for National Statistics deducts a fall in visits to the doctor and reduced classes at school from accrued GDP. Most other countries do not. They tend to calculate extra health spending as a boost to GDP. Hence a giant anomaly.

This is well-understood by the economics fraternity. It has been badly misunderstood by the lay commentariat. What we have had is an epidemic of bogus quantification. The illusory effect will reverse on the way up. The UK’s headline growth figures will be flattered – and look ridiculous – by mirror-image effect.

“The economy is poised like a coiled spring. As its energies are released, the recovery should be one to remember after a year to forget,” says Andy Haldane, the Bank of England’s chief economist.

“A year from now annual growth could be in double-digits,” he says. Households have amassed “accidental savings” of £125bn, and have paid down consumer debts by £20bn. Companies have a war chest of £100bn. Mr Haldane thinks a large chunk of this money is going to flood back into the real economy rapidly.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/02/16/brexit-britain-will-beat-eurozone-recovery-year/

Quite a different perspective than the one usually peddled on here ...

Indeed. Thanks for posting.

1. This looks to be a bit of a sleight of hand, largely through a remodelling of the basis on which GDP figures are calculated. But............

2. It still puts us 'in the middle of the pack', which is I admit better than I for one would have anticipated.

3. The key issue is that we are looking at (and interpreting) 'lag' data i.e rear view mirror.

4. It's the figures from Jan 2021 on (real Brexit) that will be of more significance.

5. I know that you and others sometimes accuse us lot of wanting the UK to do badly post Brexit. But I've always framed Brexit as a lose-lose, whereas your lot tend to think of it as a zero-sum game. Thus if our economy crashes a bit less then the EUs this is not some sort of victory for Brexit!

I think that sometimes it's well to remember that in many ways there's no such thing as the EU economy but those of its 27 member nations. If the 'EU fails' all it means is that the citizens of those 27 countries get poorer. I've got the distinct impression that you guys are so one-eyed on this issue that if the EU was to crumble, the ensuing misery of its constituent countries' citizens would not prevent you from doing a merry little dance.

As my 4 year old granddaughter would say: 'mean'.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Indeed. Thanks for posting.

1. This looks to be a bit of a sleight of hand, largely through a remodelling of the basis on which GDP figures are calculated. But............

2. It still puts us 'in the middle of the pack', which is I admit better than I for one would have anticipated.

3. The key issue is that we are looking at (and interpreting) 'lag' data i.e rear view mirror.

4. It's the figures from Jan 2021 on (real Brexit) that will be of more significance.

5. I know that you and others sometimes accuse us lot of wanting the UK to do badly post Brexit. But I've always framed Brexit as a lose-lose, whereas your lot tend to think of it as a zero-sum game. Thus if our economy crashes a bit less then the EUs this is not some sort of victory for Brexit!

I think that sometimes it's well to remember that in many ways there's no such thing as the EU economy but those of its 27 member nations. If the 'EU fails' all it means is that the citizens of those 27 countries get poorer. I've got the distinct impression that you guys are so one-eyed on this issue that if the EU was to crumble, the ensuing misery of its constituent countries' citizens would not prevent you from doing a merry little dance.

As my 4 year old granddaughter would say: 'mean'.

I don't remember anyone claiming we would have an immediate economic Brexit gain on here but I have seen an awful lot of Brexit is already a catastrophic economic disaster from your lot, therefore, I would have thought that if the UK performs broadly in line with other European countries you would all be pleasantly surprised ... as you say time will tell.

PS I don't want the EU to go tits up but I think it might eventually.

 

[nicko31]

Back on the subject and now seems Liz Truss is running away from scrutiny refusing to answer questions about the current trading crisis that her crappy government has created

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/liz-truss-trading-brexit-b1802529.html

“At a time when British exporters are crying out for the government to acknowledge and address the problems they are facing in the wake of Brexit, the Secretary of State for International Trade cannot simply put their head in the sand and pretend that these issues are not their concern.”

 

[daveinplzen]

Time will tell? Any brexiteer saying that, might as well admit to themselves that they had no idea what they were voting for.

 

[nicko31]

You might have to adjust your anti-UK narrative now nicko, just like you did with the covid figures to portray us as the worst in Europe/world.

If I wanted to harm the UK I would have voted in a government that put a custom border across it and imposed trade sanctioned on itself

About 43% who voted did, not me