[Politics] Brexit

[Lincoln Imp]

"Shouldn't we be doing all this in a railway carriage?" (not my line)

In the UK, parliament scrutinises then votes to ratify withdrawal agreement then it's signed by the PM in the EU people who we can't vote out sign agreements ..

...and if the parliament concerned won't agree what the government wants the people are told to elect one that does. Repeatedly, until, fed up and exhausted, they do.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Respecting democracy is a mantra. Democracy can be corrupted and wrong, so people won’t sit down and shut up.
Those who fought against a democratic vote ensured that men under 30 could vote, women could vote, got rid of the corn laws, freed slavery, and gave the vote for women.
We don’t pay poll tax now because a democratic vote was overturned.
I won’t sit down and shut up.

 

[wellquickwoody]

Wrong. I wouldn't have an issue with that, because (and I hate to tell you this) - that's democracy. It isn't democracy when you feel like it, or when you shift the goalposts. Everyone is entitled to their view as well as everyone is entitled to be challenged to that view - regardless of when and where. I couldn't care less if it was 20 minutes or 20 years after. It was the 'Leave' who have repeatedly used the 'you lost, get over it' trope.

Democracy rules at any point, not at some arbitrary time made up by a portion of society.

From a sad remainer, shut the fxxk up whinging

 

[WATFORD zero]

We may be able to sign a deal with Japan which might be as good as the one we have anyway or might even be better than the existing EU -Japan deal, as there is NO provision in the existing EU - Japan trade deal, or any other trade deal that forbids Japan (or anyone for that matter) from striking better trade deals with third countries above existing trade deals ( hint- this would be against the non discriminatory rules of MFN clauses -when contained in trade agreements- that have been agreed at WTO level)

So, in amongst yet another night of your regular visceral ranting and drivel, you try and include a single fact - and, as usual, get it completely wrong

From the WTO's own website

https://www.wto.org/english/thewto_e/whatis_e/tif_e/fact2_e.htm

1. Most-favoured-nation (MFN): treating other people equally Under the WTO agreements, countries cannot normally discriminate between their trading partners. Grant someone a special favour (such as a lower customs duty rate for one of their products) and you have to do the same for all other WTO members.

Some exceptions are allowed. For example, countries can set up a free trade agreement that applies only to goods traded within the group — discriminating against goods from outside.

I have tried to help before, but when you get to the point that you are fantasising to this degree, you really should cut back on your puff, porn and your 'all night, nuts deep sessions on Battlefield 1 with your boys' and maybe get a little bit of sleep

 

[WATFORD zero]

From a sad remainer, shut the fxxk up whinging

Out of interest, you agreed, 'as a remainer', that Brexit would be hugely damaging to the British economy, British business and the British people. So why are you so determined to see the majority of people you left behind in Britain when you emigrated f***ed over.

It just seems a little strange to me

 

[WATFORD zero]

Bloody Thatcher isn't though. Good riddance to bad cess.

'There's no such thing as society' - there bloody isn't now, thanks to her.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1NyWbhCxZE

So I can see why you were so pleased when Johnson got into power

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

So, in amongst yet another night of your regular visceral ranting and drivel, you try and include a single fact - and, as usual, get it completely wrong

From the WTO's own website

https://www.wto.org/english/thewto_e/whatis_e/tif_e/fact2_e.htm

1. Most-favoured-nation (MFN): treating other people equally Under the WTO agreements, countries cannot normally discriminate between their trading partners. Grant someone a special favour (such as a lower customs duty rate for one of their products) and you have to do the same for all other WTO members.

Some exceptions are allowed. For example, countries can set up a free trade agreement that applies only to goods traded within the group — discriminating against goods from outside.

I have tried to help before, but when you get to the point that you are fantasising to this degree, you really should cut back on your puff, porn and your 'all night, nuts deep sessions on Battlefield 1 with your boys' and maybe get a little bit of sleep

As a keen student of Pasta's rhetoric, I've noticed that one of his characteristics is to drill down into a technical matter and issue pronouncements which are clearly intended to be definitive. It's a bit of a Leaver thing - like when they interview a Leaver in a pub in somewhere such as Stoke and he'll say something like "leave the negotiations to me and I'll have it sorted in a couple of hours". It must be great to be so blessed with so much self-confidence; but equally a burden to be cursed with so much anger.

 

[Grombleton]

All you have done is state a democratic vote is meaningless

I'm sorry, where have I stated that again?

From a sad remainer, shut the fxxk up whinging

I refer you to post #108866

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Respecting democracy is a mantra. Democracy can be corrupted and wrong, so people won’t sit down and shut up.
Those who fought against a democratic vote ensured that men under 30 could vote, women could vote, got rid of the corn laws, freed slavery, and gave the vote for women.
We don’t pay poll tax now because a democratic vote was overturned.
I won’t sit down and shut up.

Well said.

You'll also find that many who say we have to leave because of a democratic vote have also threatened the brexit gammon Rivers of Blood (civil unrest) if, by some quirk or reason, Brexit doesn't happen.

And the thing that makes me laugh the most is old droopy invoking the rule of law and democracy (the very first thing on his mind back in the 80s on match day - not).

I know we can all be guilty of hypocrisy when it suits us, but for some of these Brexitter scoundrels it is their first refuge, rather than their last

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Respecting democracy is a mantra. Democracy can be corrupted and wrong, so people won’t sit down and shut up.
Those who fought against a democratic vote ensured that men under 30 could vote, women could vote, got rid of the corn laws, freed slavery, and gave the vote for women.
We don’t pay poll tax now because a democratic vote was overturned.
I won’t sit down and shut up.

I'm all for fighting for your views but comparing fighting the Brexit result to some of the things on your list is somewhat over dramatic to say the least.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Well said.

You'll also find that many who say we have to leave because of a democratic vote have also threatened the brexit gammon Rivers of Blood (civil unrest) if, by some quirk or reason, Brexit doesn't happen.

And the thing that makes me laugh the most is old droopy invoking the rule of law and democracy (the very first thing on his mind back in the 80s on match day - not).

I know we can all be guilty of hypocrisy when it suits us, but for some of these Brexitter scoundrels it is their first refuge, rather than their last

Monkey see, monkey do

 

[WATFORD zero]

I'm all for fighting for your views but comparing fighting the Brexit result to some of the things on your list is somewhat over dramatic to say the least.

You may think that the implications of Brexit aren't huge, others maybe not. But enough of this whataboutism.

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on the new Irish Sea Border procedures, after Johnson insisted throughout the campaign (and when he took up the solution that Theresa May had already turned down) that there wouldn't be any. And I know you were a supporter of this solution.

Because I can only see massive downsides to business on both sides of the new border, and no benefits whatsoever

 

[Klaas]

Whataboutery - and stereotyping - all in one short post. You'll be proud of that effort.

As proud as leavers were of the March for Brexit not so long ago. Britain's finest I'm sure.

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

After the bollox about levelling up, could this be the reality?

https://www.theguardian.com/society...could-lose-millions-in-council-funding-review

 

[Mo Gosfield]

As a keen student of Pasta's rhetoric, I've noticed that one of his characteristics is to drill down into a technical matter and issue pronouncements which are clearly intended to be definitive. It's a bit of a Leaver thing - like when they interview a Leaver in a pub in somewhere such as Stoke and he'll say something like "leave the negotiations to me and I'll have it sorted in a couple of hours". It must be great to be so blessed with so much self-confidence; but equally a burden to be cursed with so much anger.

Why Stoke?
Why not Brighton or Guildford or Marlow or Winchester or Torquay or Islington or Chiswick or Richmond. These places also have lots of the stereotypes you cite. I suppose its a ' Remainer thing ' to categorize whole swathes of the country as thick, racist and xenophobic and we are now saddled with this inverted snobbery for years to come.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Why Stoke?
Why not Brighton or Guildford or Marlow or Winchester or Torquay or Islington or Chiswick or Richmond. These places also have lots of the stereotypes you cite. I suppose its a ' Remainer thing ' to categorize whole swathes of the country as thick, racist and xenophobic and we are now saddled with this inverted snobbery for years to come.

Where did Garry Nelson's teacher say 'thick, racist and xenophobic' as i must have missed it ?

Unless you mean this post

Well of course no Leaver can come up with any good and valid reasons to exit the EU. They are all the sub-species. Neanderthal, ill educated, racist, xenophobic thicko's. As opposed to the intelligent elite who know what is good for everybody and know for sure that nothing can possibly better what we have now, being members of this very privileged club.

or maybe one of these

.
You clearly have an image in your mind of a snarling, ignorant, racist thug, spouting bile and venom and ready for a fight. Not an appetising picture I admit and sadly I did see some of these characters at Wembley on Saturday! It is an obvious stereotype and a popular one.
.

No thoughts were turning to the less affluent Midlands and North and its industrial wasteland and community disintegration when times were great.I didn't hear them being called a bunch of racist thicko's then.

It might surprise a few on this thread but 17.4m people weren't entirely made up of racist thicko's who haven't got a clue what is going on.

I could go on but, frankly, can't be arsed

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

Why Stoke?
Why not Brighton or Guildford or Marlow or Winchester or Torquay or Islington or Chiswick or Richmond. These places also have lots of the stereotypes you cite. I suppose its a ' Remainer thing ' to categorize whole swathes of the country as thick, racist and xenophobic and we are now saddled with this inverted snobbery for years to come.

I lived in Stoke, back in the day. So when the BBC were camped there for a short while, I tended to be drawn to various vox pops. These were (to me) invariably depressing to a painful degree, as I watched an almost endless stream of angry, dispossessed people blaming the EU for their woes and swallowing the Johnson line that leaving was some sort of magic quick-fix solution.
I don't think I used words such as you have and this might say rather more about the chip on your shoulder than any chip on mine. But to clear things up: I unreservedly apologise to the good folk of Stoke for comparing them with our very own Pasta,

 

[wellquickwoody]

Out of interest, you agreed, 'as a remainer', that Brexit would be hugely damaging to the British economy, British business and the British people. So why are you so determined to see the majority of people you left behind in Britain when you emigrated f***ed over.

It just seems a little strange to me

The decision is made. Make the most of what is available. I have no doubt that being within the EU would be a better long term choice but the decision is made, get on with it.

 

[WATFORD zero]

The decision is made. Make the most of what is available. I have no doubt that being within the EU would be a better long term choice but the decision is made, get on with it.

I understand the decision has been made and am 'getting on with it' by making sure that the Government deliver what they promised they would in their election campaign, (No paperwork on the Irish Sea Border, for instance), and ensuring myself and my family are protected against any negative impact of Brexit.

But why are you celebrating the fact that, by your own admission, the majority of the British people (and the poorest at that) will suffer ? That's what I am struggling to understand

 

[wellquickwoody]

I understand the decision has been made and am 'getting on with it' by making sure that the Government deliver what they promised they would in their election campaign, (No paperwork on the Irish Sea Border, for instance), and ensuring myself and my family are protected against any negative impact of Brexit.

But why are you celebrating the fact that, by your own admission, the majority of the British people (and the poorest at that) will suffer ? That's what I am struggling to understand

At no point have I celebrated. My emotive response to Brexit has remained constant, it is a mistake. Do I think that leaving is the right thing to do right now? Yes. It is both democratic and a finale. Then the UK can move on, if the fxxkwits stop whining.