[Politics] Brexit

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Quite.

Confirmatory referendum the only realistic way of attempting to resolve this horribly divisive can of worms opened by David Cameron in the hope of seeing off Farage and the ERG. Voting on an actual, negotiated deal rather than a vague 'leave' which covered a range of options from staying in the customs union and single market and maintaining citizens' rights across the UK/EU to a 'clean break' no deal. The 'culture wars' which have surfaced in all Brexit related discussions (including on NSC) will no doubt continue, but at least our interim relationship with the EU will be resolved for a while.

Why are the will of the people brigade so fearful of allowing the people to have a confirmatory vote?

They know they will lose. And that would be a Betrayal of the Will Of The PEOPLE. Fact.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Seldom do I call these sorts of events, but this time I might have cracked it.

Bojo has a deal and despite what avast minority (including myself) voted for, it is what Great Britain collectively wanted (oh and democratically so).
If Parliament reject the deal then he will be in a position to say to the electorate 'I had a deal, which is what you voted for....and Parliament has not delivered'.
The opposition can't sensibly then force him into a General Election because he would get a majority mandate for the deal.....I say this because I voted against leaving but would now vote to leave to uphold the rule of democratic law and I reckon millions countrywide would do likewise.....

What do we have from the opposition?

....SNP harping on about 'Social Justice' , whatever that is? Whilst they take £14bn a year from Westminster and still can't make ends meet.
....Labour give us 'For the many not the few' and want to put the vote back to the country whilst spending over 1 1/2 times our NHS budget on re-nationalising industries (Jeez!)
....Lib dems ...well what really do they say?
.....Greens....? Support Extinction Rebellion with their far left influences?

Get it through and then concentrate on other more pressing matters, like wealth generation, utilities infrastructure, persuading the big economies to reduce their carbon footprint.

We have all had enough........get it done FFS!

TNBA

TTF

Two issues.

1. Will it go through? Maybe.

2. Would it be a good resolution of a horrible political period? **** no. It is like getting fed up with a sick relative who has been battling cancer for 3 years and saying 'We have had enough with this uncertainty over whether you will live or die. I am going to get a hammer and bash your brains in'.

 

[Machiavelli]

Quite.

Confirmatory referendum the only realistic way of attempting to resolve this horribly divisive can of worms opened by David Cameron in the hope of seeing off Farage and the ERG. Voting on an actual, negotiated deal rather than a vague 'leave' which covered a range of options from staying in the customs union and single market and maintaining citizens' rights across the UK/EU to a 'clean break' no deal. The 'culture wars' which have surfaced in all Brexit related discussions (including on NSC) will no doubt continue, but at least our interim relationship with the EU will be resolved for a while.

Why are the will of the people brigade so fearful of allowing the people to have a confirmatory vote?

You're spot on about the 'Leave' option in the campaign. They weren't accountable, so made all sorts of claims about what Brexit would entail. Some of these contradicted one another, others were fantastical, while others still were valid -- although coming from multiple positions.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Seldom do I call these sorts of events, but this time I might have cracked it.

Bojo has a deal and despite what avast minority (including myself) voted for, it is what Great Britain collectively wanted (oh and democratically so).
If Parliament reject the deal then he will be in a position to say to the electorate 'I had a deal, which is what you voted for....and Parliament has not delivered'.
The opposition can't sensibly then force him into a General Election because he would get a majority mandate for the deal.....I say this because I voted against leaving but would now vote to leave to uphold the rule of democratic law and I reckon millions countrywide would do likewise.....

What do we have from the opposition?

....SNP harping on about 'Social Justice' , whatever that is? Whilst they take £14bn a year from Westminster and still can't make ends meet.
....Labour give us 'For the many not the few' and want to put the vote back to the country whilst spending over 1 1/2 times our NHS budget on re-nationalising industries (Jeez!)
....Lib dems ...well what really do they say?
.....Greens....? Support Extinction Rebellion with their far left influences?

Get it through and then concentrate on other more pressing matters, like wealth generation, utilities infrastructure, persuading the big economies to reduce their carbon footprint.

We have all had enough........get it done FFS!

TNBA

TTF

The one issue Boris may have is that he would have to stand on the deal at the election, this would allow the Brexit party back into play.

 

[dingodan]

They know they will lose. And that would be a Betrayal of the Will Of The PEOPLE. Fact.

Another great example of, argh I don't even know what to call it anymore.

Look, imagine your political party won a GE tomorrow.

Then imagine that the day after I said to you, that vote doesn't count, we need another GE to find out what people want now.

Then you said, "Uh, no...".

Then I said, "Aha, you are scared because you know you will lose!"

It's childish and it's willfully dishonest. It's not hard to see, just imagine for a moment being on the other end of behavior like that.

Why can't you say something more like, "People don't want another vote because we had one, and they believe that the first vote should be implemented and that calls for a second vote is dishonourable".

It might not be something you agree with, but it would be an honest reflection of what every leave voter has ever said about why they oppose a second vote.

 

[daveinplzen]

Brexiteers don't give a **** about the country. Its now about saving face. Actually, it has been for some time.

 

[dingodan]

Two issues.

1. Will it go through? Maybe.

2. Would it be a good resolution of a horrible political period? **** no. It is like getting fed up with a sick relative who has been battling cancer for 3 years and saying 'We have had enough with this uncertainty over whether you will live or die. I am going to get a hammer and bash your brains in'.

You are f*cking unbelievable.

 

[daveinplzen]

Won't go through. Another extension

 

[The Rivet]

Won't go through. Another extension

NO, the benn act stated that we would have to ask for another extension if the government did not return with a deal to vote on.
The 'deal' is being voted on Saturday. Turn it down then Boris does not have to send a letter (by the 'letter' of the law) to Brussels.
No deal the result.

 

[CheeseRolls]

Another great example of, argh I don't even know what to call it anymore.

Look, imagine your political party won a GE tomorrow.

Then imagine that the day after I said to you, that vote doesn't count, we need another GE to find out what people want now.

Then you said, "Uh, no...".

Then I said, "Aha, you are scared because you know you will lose!"

It's childish and it's willfully dishonest. It's not hard to see, just imagine for a moment being on the other end of behavior like that.

Why can't you say something more like, "People don't want another vote because we had one, and they believe that the first vote should be implemented and that calls for a second vote is dishonourable".

It might not be something you agree with, but it would be an honest reflection of what every leave voter has ever said about why they oppose a second vote.

Imagine your political party had lost a general election. The winners promised sunlight uplands and three years later offered you a gift wrapped shit sandwich.

The wrapping paper featured favourite slogans like "Remain means Remain", "will of the people" and "Stop Bleating Leavers" Nom nom enjoy.

Three years work and this is what we have to show for it.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

 

[WATFORD zero]

NO, the benn act stated that we would have to ask for another extension if the government did not return with a deal to vote on.
The 'deal' is being voted on Saturday. Turn it down then Boris does not have to send a letter (by the 'letter' of the law) to Brussels.
No deal the result.

Desperate

And wrong

 

[Machiavelli]

Johnson can probably rely on the votes of the 21 kicked out ( minus Gyimah who joined the Lib Dems ) + Boles.

He'll need to get all the photos out to force all his MPs to fall into line.

If he gets 10+ Labour MPs it may be close, very close...

At which point he can tell the DUP they will lose all their bung if they don't fold...

Can you really see the DUP rolling back from their current position? They've said that the deal "drives a coach and horses" through the Good Friday Agreement. They've said they're together "solid as the rock of Gibraltar" and won't back the deal, they've even said that all of their MPs will vote against the deal. More general Unionism in NI is strongly opposed to the deal.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Is the agreement going down as well, generally, in the Gammon community?

You must be supporting this deal as the Irish government are happy with it which always seems to be your overriding priority.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Have you got to the following bits yet ?

Northern Ireland is in the UK's customs territory but in reality the EU's customs processes will apply, with some exemptions, rebates and other tweaks.

Northern Ireland will follow pages and pages of EU rules on agriculture and goods. Items entering Northern Ireland from Britain will be checked for compliance with those EU regulations to protect the rest of the EU in order for the single market to be physically protected.

Breaches of those rules can be sent to the European Court of Justice, which means the EU's highest court still administers EU law. The single market will be legally protected.

The people of NI can indeed decide if they want out of this. It's then down to Stormont to change the status quo and introduce a hard border. Nicely ducked, Johnson.

And Ninety-five per cent of this 'revised deal' is the same as that agreed with Theresa May, of which you said



I can't imagine what the people of NI could find to whine and moan about with this deal ?

Sounds just like the 'good deal' you have been waiting for

Yes boris has secured a deal where the political representatives of Northern Ireland can decide their own destiny. If a majority don't like it they can change it. Btw didn't you say the idea that one side could unilaterally withdraw from the deal with a set amount of notice as absurd and the EU would never agree to that?

The five percent being the part that tied us inside the customs union indefinetly subject to all EU rulings with no say, until the EU agreed we could leave – see Vassal state.

Other benefits include the removal of the level playing field sections from the legal text giving us complete freedom to set our own rules,standards,taxes etc

More positives, May's deal trapped us inside the customs union making it likely that any future trade deal would leave us inside a customs union (soft Brexit) whereas the Boris deal outside the customs union paves the way for Canada +++ (harder/real Brexit). It also gives us more flexibility striking trade deals with other nations.

The DUP were demanding a unilateral veto on the deal, that's the main reason they can't support it. On one hand your lot moan because the DUP have too much influence then you use there non agreement to suggest unionists are being sold out …. moan about no deal, moan about a deal same old same old.

Where does this Boris deal fit on your 'there were only ever three (sometimes four) options that were always the same (although you changed them)' claims?

 

[portslade seagull]

You must be supporting this deal as the Irish government are happy with it which always seems to be your overriding priority.

The remainers on here change their arguments like a whore changes her knickers

 

[portslade seagull]

Yes boris has secured a deal where the political representatives of Northern Ireland can decide their own destiny. If a majority don't like it they can change it. Btw didn't you say the idea that one side could unilaterally withdraw from the deal with a set amount of notice as absurd and the EU would never agree to that?

The five percent being the part that tied us inside the customs union indefinetly subject to all EU rulings with no say, until the EU agreed we could leave – see Vassal state.

Other benefits include the removal of the level playing field sections from the legal text giving us complete freedom to set our own rules,standards,taxes etc

More positives, May's deal trapped us inside the customs union making it likely that any future trade deal would leave us inside a customs union (soft Brexit) whereas the Boris deal outside the customs union paves the way for Canada +++ (harder/real Brexit). It also gives us more flexibility striking trade deals with other nations.

The DUP were demanding a unilateral veto on the deal, that's the main reason they can't support it. On one hand your lot moan because the DUP have too much influence then you use there non agreement to suggest unionists are being sold out …. moan about no deal, moan about a deal same old same old.

Where does this Boris deal fit on your 'there were only ever three (sometimes four) options that were always the same (although you changed them)' claims?

He will edit all his responses like he always does

 

[The Rivet]

Desperate

And wrong

Care to explain why?

 

[JC Footy Genius]

He will edit all his responses like he always does

Unusually he always wastes the edits by making even more stupid statements rather than correcting all the other ones

 

[The Rivet]

Desperate

And wrong

10 mins now, still no explaination. Tic toc!

 

[Bodian]

Care to explain why?

Because the Benn Act says that a letter requesting an extension must be sent if MPs have not approved a deal. Not just if no deal has been agreed between Johnson & the EU.

s1(1)(a)
1Duties in connection with the withdrawal of the UK from the European Union
(1)The condition in this subsection is that a Minister of the Crown has laid before each House of Parliament a statement that the United Kingdom has concluded an agreement with the European Union under Article 50(2) of the Treaty on European Union and a copy of the agreement and—
(a)the agreement has been approved by resolution of the House of Commons on a motion moved by a Minister of the Crown, and

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/26/enacted/data.htm