[Politics] Brexit

[drew]

There's a People's Vote march on Saturday so I shall be heading up there to lend my support (albeit fleetingly as I shall be passing through on my way to Villa Pk).

 

[RexCathedra]

You're this close ].... [ to becoming the greatest offshore tax-haven the world has ever seen!

Don't go all wobbly now....

 

[The Clamp]

NO, the benn act stated that we would have to ask for another extension if the government did not return with a deal to vote on.
The 'deal' is being voted on Saturday. Turn it down then Boris does not have to send a letter (by the 'letter' of the law) to Brussels.
No deal the result.

Seriously, this is why the country is in such a mess. People like you who simply don’t understand how things work. Get a ****ing clue.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Which will come first that reply or a reply from [MENTION=1365]Westdene Seagull[/MENTION]'s seemingly pro EU stance in #103992.

They are a confusing bunch.

The only thing I'm confused about is how you read the post you mention and think it's pro-EU

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Sorry to be a bore, but could you remind me what day you think Brexit will be? There’s a good chap.

31st October
Regards
DF

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Tend to agree, the attitude is of brexit fatigue but this is so important.

As for upholding a democratic vote, it was far from that with Leave.eu overspending on the last few days on unchallenged facebook ads with the help of cambridge analytica!!!!

Źzzzzzzzzzz all old hat, must try harder
regards
DF

 

[Thunder Bolt]

There's a case going into court today to say the Withdrawal Agreement breaks section 55 of the Cross Border Act 2018, which was brought into government by Rees-Mogg.
It would need to be repealed, and, considering the government has only allowed 90 minutes for the whole 500 pages to be debated, makes the whole thing a complete farce.

I suppose they hoped nobody would notice.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

"Stockholm Syndrome" means respecting the outcome of a vote ?

The vote was respected. Article 50 was triggered, but Parliament is sovereign, not the EU, not the people, so working it out for the benefit of the country is showing what a rubbish idea it is.
Lies are being exposed, corruption is being shown up, and laws are being broken.

An analogy has already been made of voting to move house, but once you made the offer, the survey has found dry rot, rising damp and woodworm.
No amount of 'but we must move' is going to change the outcome, so the best thing to do is to stay put, and repair the house we are already in.

 

[Hugo Rune]

31st October
Regards
DF

Thanks a lot.

Halloween Party or Leave Party that night?

 

[WATFORD zero]

Yes boris has secured a deal where the political representatives of Northern Ireland can decide their own destiny. If a majority don't like it they can change it. Btw didn't you say the idea that one side could unilaterally withdraw from the deal with a set amount of notice as absurd and the EU would never agree to that?

The five percent being the part that tied us inside the customs union indefinetly subject to all EU rulings with no say, until the EU agreed we could leave – see Vassal state.

Other benefits include the removal of the level playing field sections from the legal text giving us complete freedom to set our own rules,standards,taxes etc

More positives, May's deal trapped us inside the customs union making it likely that any future trade deal would leave us inside a customs union (soft Brexit) whereas the Boris deal outside the customs union paves the way for Canada +++ (harder/real Brexit). It also gives us more flexibility striking trade deals with other nations.

The DUP were demanding a unilateral veto on the deal, that's the main reason they can't support it. On one hand your lot moan because the DUP have too much influence then you use there non agreement to suggest unionists are being sold out …. moan about no deal, moan about a deal same old same old.

Where does this Boris deal fit on your 'there were only ever three (sometimes four) options that were always the same (although you changed them)' claims?

You really don't get it do you ? I'll try and make this as simple as possible.

The 'hated backstop' was an insurance policy if no alternative arrangements could be found (the alternatives that the Leave campaign always insisted would happen as part of the trade negotiations). What Johnson has proposed isn't an insurance policy, this is what he wants to happen.

In order to move goods around parts of the UK we will have to abide by the rules and regulations of the EU under the legal framework of the European Court of Justice. Rules and Regulations over which we will have absolutely no input whatsoever, if we aren't a member.

THIS IS TO MOVE GOODS AROUND THE UK. We haven't even started negotiating on what we would will have to comply with to move goods to the EU (The trade deal). I suspect that having agreed to abide by their rules for moving goods around our own country, it won't be the strongest of negotiating positions.

NI 'deciding their own destiny' means that, in order to change this, they have to introduce a Hard Border and break the GFA. Which would be exactly the same situation as 'the idea that one side could unilaterally withdraw from the deal with a set amount' or indeed, 'no deal'

See if you can guess which of the three options this comes under (I've given you a hint just in case)

I really can't see anything beyond the three options

1/ Soft Brexit with No borders and regulatory alignment

2/ No agreement and WTO

3/ Withdraw article 50

Shirley, any negotiation now will only be minor fine-tuning on one of the above

Taking back control ? But this definitely isn't a vassal state deal because it's Johnson that has agreed to us abiding by these EU rules and regulations by design, rather than in the case of no alternative can be found

 

[beorhthelm]

Tend to agree, the attitude is of brexit fatigue but this is so important.

As for upholding a democratic vote, it was far from that with Leave.eu overspending on the last few days on unchallenged facebook ads with the help of cambridge analytica!!!!

still bemused that anyone thinks accounting discrepencies for leave spending made it undemocratic, when the total remain spend was £6m more. (Electoral Commission numbers to save searching)

 

[The Clamp]

still bemused that anyone thinks accounting discrepencies for leave spending made it undemocratic, when the total remain spend was £6m more. (Electoral Commission numbers to save searching)

Money that wouldn't have been spent if there hadn't been a forced referendum

 

[Westdene Seagull]

With as much politeness and respect as I can muster - you can’t possibly be this naive can you?

The deal passing will be the START of 10-20 years hard negotiation. Brexit not leaving our headlines for DECADES.

This isn’t getting anything “done”. We won’t be able to “concentrate on more pressing matters” for a very, very, very, very, very long time.

The difference being that negotiations will go on separately from normal government business. The reason everything has ground to a halt over the last 2-3 years is because of the arguments about should we leave or shouldn't we and if we do leave how. It's involved Parliament in every step. Parliament and indeed most of government won't be involved day to day with the negotiations once we've left. Instead they can get on with other business.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

The difference being that negotiations will go on separately from normal government business. The reason everything has ground to a halt over the last 2-3 years is because of the arguments about should we leave or shouldn't we and if we do leave how. It's involved Parliament in every step. Parliament and indeed most of government won't be involved day to day with the negotiations once we've left. Instead they can get on with other business.

I'm sorry but that is naive. The government and Parliament will still be very involved.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

still bemused that anyone thinks accounting discrepencies for leave spending made it undemocratic, when the total remain spend was £6m more. (Electoral Commission numbers to save searching)

It's not the amount but the sources of the money. Isle of Man, diamond mines, Russia?

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I'm sorry but that is naive. The government and Parliament will still be very involved.

Just as an example, all 'no deal' Brexit work will be dumped - something that's tied up a huge percentage of civil service time.

 

[ManOfSussex]

You must be supporting this deal as the Irish government are happy with it which always seems to be your overriding priority.

They're as happy as they can be with the damage limitation this agreement offers, which is ultimately caused by this whole nostalgic, English nationalist cluster**** - aka 'Brexit'. Apropos to the Irish however and The DUP are far from happy though. The only people who are seem to be English, Brexit backing Tories.

Strange isn't it - I can remember earlier in the year The Right Honourable member for North East Somerset expressing concerns at a deal going through on the back of 'socialist votes' but now Mr Rees-Mogg is quite happy to accept them for this one and sell the union down the river.

An interesting day looms tomorrow one way or another. Difficult to call it, but apropos to the Irish again - I'm going for England, New Zealand and Albion to win.

 

[The Clamp]

The difference being that negotiations will go on separately from normal government business. The reason everything has ground to a halt over the last 2-3 years is because of the arguments about should we leave or shouldn't we and if we do leave how. It's involved Parliament in every step. Parliament and indeed most of government won't be involved day to day with the negotiations once we've left. Instead they can get on with other business.

Yeah, I doubt It'll take much of parliament's time now all the hard work is done.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Just as an example, all 'no deal' Brexit work will be dumped - something that's tied up a huge percentage of civil service time.

The Civil Service do what Parliament instructs them to do. Parliament will have to repeal and make several new laws to cover what is being abandoned.
I also read that you believe the EU employment laws will be accepted here after Brexit. I don't trust these Tories one iota, and think anyone who believes that is naive.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Just as an example, all 'no deal' Brexit work will be dumped - something that's tied up a huge percentage of civil service time.

I would respectfully suggest that the amount of civil service time that will be taken to replace our EU trade deals of the last 40 years, over the next few years, will be disproportionately higher than the amount of time spent 'preparing for no deal' over the last few months. (Johnson saying at the time of his election that there had been very little preparation for no deal).