[Politics] Brexit

[dingodan]

Remain MP's:

"We will respect the result"

"We want to overturn the result"

"You can't get a deal the EU have said the WA can't be changed"

"You don't really want a deal, prove you want a deal, go and get a deal"

"We won't support the deal"

 

[Lever]

Remainers that continue to want another referendum and waste yet more time, money and uncertainty in business.

You're just wasting your time.

I wanted a NO deal, but I understand that to be realistic, a deal that satisfies both parties has to be a winner to solve peace in Britain today.

Peace man, well played Boris.

Congratulations on making a contribution without resorting to obnoxious comment or dropping in a veiled reference to violence on the streets.

I don't know whether you knew this, but there are more than two parties and I don't think they are all 'satisfied' by this latest 'deal'.

 

[Lever]

Remain MP's:

"We will respect the result"

"We want to overturn the result"

"You can't get a deal the EU have said the WA can't be changed"

"You don't really want a deal, prove you want a deal, go and get a deal"

"We won't support the deal"

Do you see any difference between the two terms above?

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

I've never done this before but I dug out my comment made on the 23rd August:. Bloody hell I wish I'd got it wrong.

I also think he (Johnson) has another great quality: he is simply lucky. He has somehow got away with it and become Prime Minister. This in itself is absolutely bloody amazing and the culmination of many huge slices of luck. It could well be that he is even lucky enough to GET A DEAL. I don't know how, but I'm not ruling it out. I know that the Brexiteers narrative has always said the EU will 'crumble' and while there's been no evidence of this yet, I think that there might well be some internal pressures bubbling up from beneath Merkel and Macron (after all their economies are not exactly steaming full ahead) and there's also the impact of a no deal on the RoI which would be catastrophic in both political (border/Good Friday Agreement) and economic terms. (As it would be for NI.)

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Remain MP's:

"We will respect the result"

"We want to overturn the result"

"You can't get a deal the EU have said the WA can't be changed"

"You don't really want a deal, prove you want a deal, go and get a deal"

"We won't support the deal"

Except that many remain MP's will support the deal, and once again we're wondering if the ERG and DUP will support it

 

[dingodan]

Do you see any difference between the two terms above?

There wasn't any deal they would ever have supported.

Just like you, you don't want a deal, you want no Brexit. So do they.

You are at least more honest about it than they are.

 

[Chicken Run]

I've never done this before but I dug out my comment made on the 23rd August:. Bloody hell I wish I'd got it wrong.

I also think he (Johnson) has another great quality: he is simply lucky. He has somehow got away with it and become Prime Minister. This in itself is absolutely bloody amazing and the culmination of many huge slices of luck. It could well be that he is even lucky enough to GET A DEAL. I don't know how, but I'm not ruling it out. I know that the Brexiteers narrative has always said the EU will 'crumble' and while there's been no evidence of this yet, I think that there might well be some internal pressures bubbling up from beneath Merkel and Macron (after all their economies are not exactly steaming full ahead) and there's also the impact of a no deal on the RoI which would be catastrophic in both political (border/Good Friday Agreement) and economic terms. (As it would be for NI.)

Can I genuinely A’s why you wish you got it wrong? [emoji2377]

 

[WATFORD zero]

The Uk isn't trapped inside the customs union indefinitely with no unilateral exit clause.

NI stays in our customs territory (legally) and the people of Northern Ireland will have a say on changing the agreement if they don't like it.

I will bring you more when I have finished reading all of it.

Have you got to the following bits yet ?

Northern Ireland is in the UK's customs territory but in reality the EU's customs processes will apply, with some exemptions, rebates and other tweaks.

Northern Ireland will follow pages and pages of EU rules on agriculture and goods. Items entering Northern Ireland from Britain will be checked for compliance with those EU regulations to protect the rest of the EU in order for the single market to be physically protected.

Breaches of those rules can be sent to the European Court of Justice, which means the EU's highest court still administers EU law. The single market will be legally protected.

The people of NI can indeed decide if they want out of this. It's then down to Stormont to change the status quo and introduce a hard border. Nicely ducked, Johnson.

And Ninety-five per cent of this 'revised deal' is the same as that agreed with Theresa May, of which you said

I completely understand that some extremist loons would prefer the UK to become a Vassal state rather than see the UK make a clean break and forge a new role in the world.

I can't imagine what the people of NI could find to whine and moan about with this deal ?

Sounds just like the 'good deal' you have been waiting for

 

[portslade seagull]

Except that many remain MP's will support the deal, and once again we're wondering if the ERG and DUP will support it

Let's hope it's now voted through so we can get past this hopeless situation

 

[kemptown kid]

Well, they might always retort that the only fact/evidence that matters was the referendum. I'd say that the key numbers that mater at present are the parliamentary votes on Saturday. The good news is that at least it's now coming down to crunch time. Fingers crossed for parliament to reject the deal, and then to accept it together with a confirmatory referendum.

Quite.

Confirmatory referendum the only realistic way of attempting to resolve this horribly divisive can of worms opened by David Cameron in the hope of seeing off Farage and the ERG. Voting on an actual, negotiated deal rather than a vague 'leave' which covered a range of options from staying in the customs union and single market and maintaining citizens' rights across the UK/EU to a 'clean break' no deal. The 'culture wars' which have surfaced in all Brexit related discussions (including on NSC) will no doubt continue, but at least our interim relationship with the EU will be resolved for a while.

Why are the will of the people brigade so fearful of allowing the people to have a confirmatory vote?

 

[WATFORD zero]

Let's hope it's now voted through so we can get past this hopeless situation

You obviously want to get the easy bit over with (the withdrawal agreement) and get on with the long and arduous bit of the negotiation, the trade deal

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

Can I genuinely A’s why you wish you got it wrong? [emoji2377]

Yes sure: but for the full version you'd need to trawl through my various postings on this tread. So in short: I think that Brexit is the worst development in British politics. economics and the social fabric in my lifetime. It has no redeeming features and will be a disaster. And I wish I'm wrong (again).

 

[portslade seagull]

You obviously want to get the easy bit over with (the withdrawal agreement) and get on with the long and arduous bit of the negotiation, the trade deal

Still acting like a baby, keep it up

 

[Baldseagull]

The biggest poll since the ref was carried out this month, and 54% supported leaving.

No they didn't, they were asked a loaded question in relation to respecting the last referendum, not how they would vote in another.
The same group returned a 51% in favour of not leaving on the 31st, either with or without a deal.

 

[kemptown kid]

Fishing must be your hobby Stat !!!

End of Union - Which Union ? The EU ? Good. The UK ? The Scots were always going to leave eventually.
Workers’ rights trashed - exactly what evidence is there of this ? All current EU legislation is to be transposed into UK law
Environmental protections ending - rubbish, we have better environmental laws than the EU
Huge hit to trade - in the short term
Huge slump in growth - a small slump in growth, the word huge is just project fear. Apparently we were due a HUGE slump in growth the moment we voted leave …. hmmm
Jobs going - some yes
Chlorinated chicken - what a load of scaremongering. Also, if it did happen ( which it won't ), just don't buy it if it bothers you that much
NHS for sale to US - yet again, project fear
End of right to work, retire & live in 30 countries - weird, I know people that worked in these countries before we joined the EU ( ECC ). People retired there before as well. People lived there before. Actually I know people that have done all three activities in countries OUTSIDE the EU. Who would have thought it ?? Project Fear again.

Assuming your 'it won't be as bad or different as you fear' argument is correct, please remind us what will be better.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Still acting like a baby, keep it up

It was extremely immature of me to point out the obvious implications of your latest 'just get on with it' post, I'm guessing somewhat to your embarrassment. Out of interest have you read the details of the deal and are there any aspects you particularly like ?

Don't worry, I won't do it again

 

[Baldseagull]

Oh dear God...please please don't tell me that there are sensible people out there still taking notice of opinion polls. They have been discredited over and over again. They got Brexit wrong, they got Trump wrong, they got GE 2017 wrong and they have got umpteen other elections wrong. We all know, if we cast individual bias aside that a 2nd ref would be very similar to the first.i.e close again. Hard line Leavers and Remainers are unchanged in opinion. Waverers pretty much balance each other out. It won't solve anything because whoever loses in a tight vote will demand ref no.3 ( or 4, whichever way you look at it )

Quite wrong, polls taken at the beginning of a campaign, or just before it did not predict the end result, but those polls taken close to voting were quite accurate, for Brexit, Trump and GE 2017

 

[Deleted member 2719]

Congratulations on making a contribution without resorting to obnoxious comment or dropping in a veiled reference to violence on the streets.

I don't know whether you knew this, but there are more than two parties and I don't think they are all 'satisfied' by this latest 'deal'.

We know the Libs and the SNP have their own agendas and to a certain degree, Labour does also.

They need to vote for compromise and not their pipe dreams of winning an election.

The country can now ease into a sigh and.............

https://youtu.be/0yU0JuE1jTk

 

[Guinness Boy]

Yes sure: but for the full version you'd need to trawl through my various postings on this tread. So in short: I think that Brexit is the worst development in British politics. economics and the social fabric in my lifetime. It has no redeeming features and will be a disaster. And I wish I'm wrong (again).

Well, he did ask


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Hugo Rune]

Looking like Johnson's deal vs *no deal* disaster-Brexit on Saturday.

Parliament had better not blunder this time.

That’s what Johnson wants Parliament to believe. I’m sure Parliament won’t blunder into accepting Johnson’s Orwellian version of the situation so you have nothing to worry about.

The only way that his deal is getting through is with the confirmatory ‘law making’ referendum bolt-on added.