[Politics] Brexit

[portslade seagull]

3 is the solution to Brexit that keeps everybody happy.

Hasn't made it up yet like most remain drivel

 

[GT49er]

You need to do some serious growing up.
Or are you pissed.

Neither, sonny.


Now f*** off, and congratulate yourself on being one of the reasons why people don't want to join in sensible discussions on this thread. As I said, not worth the candle (you can take that to mean you or the thread - it's up to you).

 

[Ernest]

I’ll generously give it till Monday before this new proposal falls apart

 

[clapham_gull]

I’ll generously give it till Monday before this new proposal falls apart

Maybe yes, maybe no, but what a back down by the UK Government albeit inevitable if they want out the EU.

Reality suddenly comes home to the Tory party and the EU and Ireland are beaming with joy. Boris forced to resurrect a deal even May chucked in the bin.

Widdicombe and Farage are already kicking off.

 

[clapham_gull]

Is 3 a secret?

3) Where is 4 ?
4) Here I am

 

[dingodan]

Not sure if this is true but here is what is said to be a "leaked" description of the new plan:

Under the plan, the whole of the United Kingdom leaves the EU customs union, in a big and important win for Boris Johnson.

However, the EU tariff regime will continue to be applied on whole of the island of Ireland.

This means that the tariffs charged in Great Britain could be different to those in Northern Ireland.

But under the compromise agreement, all businesses in Northern Ireland will be able to benefit from UK tariffs by offering a rebate on goods sold, if the UK tariff is lower than the EU one.

This plan allows Europe to say the island of Ireland is in one customs zone.

Which is a win for them.

This plan also allows Mr Johnson to say the whole of the UK has left the customs union and Northern Ireland can - like the rest of Great Britain benefit from trade deals, which is a win for him.

This compromise comes in the spirit of the Good Friday Agreement, which allowed for competing interpretations of one set of rules to allow peace in Northern Ireland.

Though, in truth, Britain has probably compromised more than the EU in this process.

Putting together the various compromises offered by Mr Johnson, Northern Ireland will, under Mr Johnson's plan, now be in the same regulatory and agricultural zone and subject to the same tariffs as the rest of the EU.

There will be a regulatory and agrifoods border in the Irish Sea and potentially some customs checks too, albeit while ensuring that Northern Ireland businesses do not lose out financially from the arrangement.

Some have compared the plan to a version of Theresa May's Chequers deal, but for Northern Ireland.

Others call it a Northern Ireland backstop - rejected decisively by MPs time and again - in all but name.

Number 10 will reject both labels and probably call it a free trade zone.

There will also be the option for Northern Ireland - either via Stormont or another mechanism - to vote on the plan in a few years, details of which are yet to be spelt out.

However, the government is not home and dry.

They need to convince the rest of the EU, and there may be reservations about whether the UK post-Brexit can be trusted to administer the EU external border, and whether they are prepared to tolerate the risk of smuggling.

Then they also need to convince parliament.

Mr Johnson does not have a majority and, since he expelled a number of Tories who were voting to block no-deal, his numbers have been going backwards.

Several have joined the Lib Dems, while others who support a second referendum are not minded to support Mr Johnson either.

Meanwhile, Mr Johnson's Brexit plan paves the way for Great Britain to be subject to the hardest possible Brexit, potentially allowing for a reworking of the entire economic and social model towards low-tax low-regulation states with small safety nets, such as Singapore.

This makes it harder for Labour MPs to support.

This battle is not over yet.

https://news.sky.com/story/johnsons...s-illusion-of-victory-for-both-sides-11833165

 

[warmleyseagull]

Is 3 a secret?

BJ will wear a tie that doesn't reach his bollocks.

 

[Rodney Thomas]

Neither, sonny.


Now f*** off, and congratulate yourself on being one of the reasons why people don't want to join in sensible discussions on this thread. As I said, not worth the candle (you can take that to mean you or the thread - it's up to you).

And your contribution to the thread this afternoon has been 'sensible'?

Practice what you preach my friend.

 

[clapham_gull]

It's so funny you couldn't make it up.

Boris Johnson the breath of fresh air who will stand up to EU who apparently want to keep us in.

Reality Check ? The EU now seen us as lost cause (Farage helped with that) and want us out on their terms to protect their interests.

Bend over Boris.

Northern Ireland not actually in the customs union ? Call it what you like Boris, you will be picking up the bureaucratic tab to make "it so".

 

[Bodian]

Not sure if this is true but here is what is said to be a "leaked" description of the new plan:



https://news.sky.com/story/johnsons...s-illusion-of-victory-for-both-sides-11833165

The one thing that seems to have been missing from all the recent discussions is 'what about the movement of people?'. Where will the border be for them - is it the Irish Sea?

 

[Bodian]

It's so funny you couldn't make it up.

Boris Johnson the breath of fresh air who will stand up to EU who apparently want to keep us in.

Reality Check ? The EU now seen us as lost cause (Farage helped with that) and want us out on their terms to protect their interests.

Bend over Boris.

Northern Ireland not actually in the customs union ? Call it what you like Boris, you will be picking up the bureaucratic tab to make "it so".

Yes - all this bravado about 'we've moved, now the EU have to move'. It looks as though Johnson is the one to have moved again. It's not compromise in that it all seems to be one way movement. But presumably he'll sell it as the EU giving in...

 

[clapham_gull]

The one thing that seems to have been missing from all the recent discussions is 'what about the movement of people?'. Where will the border be for them - is it the Irish Sea?

I think they will simply ask "Are you Irish ?" as if the EU give a stuff.

This Government has long dropped the anti-immigration line. Those who voted Brexit for immigration reasons are in a cold hard shock.

 

[clapham_gull]

Yes - all this bravado about 'we've moved, now the EU have to move'. It looks as though Johnson is the one to have moved again. It's not compromise in that it all seems to be one way movement. But presumably he'll sell it as the EU giving in...

Boris is an Urban Liberal who fully supports Freedom of Movement behind the scenes. As he's been playing the "anti EU" line against his better instincts to become PM, it's not really a surprise who blinked first.

 

[dingodan]

Boris is an Urban Liberal who fully supports Freedom of Movement behind the scenes. As he's been playing the "anti EU" line against his better instincts to become PM, it's not really a surprise who blinked first.

Maybe it's been wrong to view this as a contest with winners and losers.

In a negotiation you want both sides to feel like they have got a good deal, that seems to be the best way forward to me. Less of this us vs them and more of a mutual understanding of and respect for each others needs.

As long as we leave, I'm not interested in mocking the other side or rubbing anyones face in anything, nor am I bothered if anyone else treats things like that. I don't see the value in that kind of thing on either side. If everyone can walk away relatively content and we can move on in a positive and friendly spirit, that would be the best result IMO.

 

[clapham_gull]

Maybe it's been wrong to view this as a contest with winners and losers.

In a negotiation you want both sides to feel like they have got a good deal, that seems to be the best way forward to me. Less of this us vs them and more of a mutual understanding of and respect for each others needs.

As long as we leave, I'm not interested in mocking the other side or rubbing anyones face in anything, nor am I bothered if anyone else treats things like that. I don't see the value in that kind of thing on either side. If everyone can walk away relatively content and we can move on in a positive and friendly spirit, that would be the best result IMO.

Ha, ha, ha, ha.

**** me, stand up son. The first raving Neo-Liberal Brexiteer who has re-invented themselves as St Francis of Assisi.

What next ? Is Trump the Gandhi ?

.. in a funny way, yes.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Well US, if you can tell us what a 'decent deal' consists of, I can definitely tell you whether Johnson is on the brink of it.

But since you, Johnson, nobody in government and nobody on NSC can tell us what a 'decent deal' looks like, I would guess the answer is no, yet another unicorn. That's why it would appear incredible and extraordinary.

Hope this helps

What makes you so righteous to tell people what you think is a good deal pompous **** alert !
are you ready for Brexit ?
Regards
DW

 

[dingodan]

I think they will simply ask "Are you Irish ?" as if the EU give a stuff.

This Government has long dropped the anti-immigration line. Those who voted Brexit for immigration reasons are in a cold hard shock.

I would also say I think that people who voted leave have been somewhat misrepresented on this.

I don't want freedom of movement and uncontrolled immigration. But that doesn't mean I don't want immigration. There is no "anti-immigration line". Just an "anti uncontrolled immigration line". The distinction is crucial.

Maybe the PM is big on immigration and will have a mind to allow many people to come here from the EU and from elsewhere. I personally have zero problem with that, as is the case for many people who voted Brexit.

In the event that we don't agree with this or any other PM about the numbers of people who should be allowed to come here, we can campaign for and elect a different government. That's all we wanted. Not an end to immigration. Just a democratic mechanism for deciding what level we are happy with, and what level we are not happy with, and even then, maybe a very "open door" policy which isn't what we personally want ends up being the one which will get a future government elected. That's fine. That is democracy, and that is all we ever wanted.

 

[clapham_gull]

I would also say I think that people who voted leave have been somewhat misrepresented on this.......The distinction is crucial..

They haven't and it isn't.

It was a major factor in the result. Post Brexit "people" have as much power over immigration than they did before. Nothing.

We are in such bonkers times that stories that would have made the front pages before aren't even making the papers.

The continuing investigations into Boris as London Mayor ? A trickle.

This Governments decision to extend foreign student visas to two years ? Gone in a day.

So if the electorate disagree with this Governments decision to drop the immigration quota, who are they going to vote for ? Labour, Lib Dems, BNP ?



You get what you vote for.

 

[dingodan]

They haven't and it isn't.

It was a major factor in the result. Post Brexit "people" have as much power over immigration than they did before. Nothing.

We are in such bonkers times that stories that would have made the front pages before aren't even making the papers.

The continuing investigations into Boris as London Mayor ? A trickle.

This Governments decision to extend foreign student visas to two years ? Gone in a day.

So if the electorate disagree with this Governments decision to drop the immigration quota, who are they going to vote for ? Labour, Lib Dems, BNP ?



You get what you vote for.

What was a major factor in the result? People wanting no more immigration? Or people wanting the ability for the UK to decide it's own immigration policy.

The position has been misrepresented, and you seem to be doing that right now.

We don't want uncontrolled immigration, so we are accused of not wanting immigration.

We don't want to be tied into a political union, so we are accused of not wanting to be good friends and neighbours with the rest of europe.

I know it's helpful to protray people who voted leave as being bigotted, closed minded and isolationist. But it's not true and it never was.

Most of us actually want a very similar relationship with the EU to the one we have now. The only difference being that the word "must", becomes "may".

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

The only reason we may now possibly get a deal is because A) Boris has made it quite clear we’re leaving come what may, and B) Boris has been prepared to compromise and find an acceptable way forward for all parties concerned in particular the DUP and the Irish PM. If we do leave with a deal on 31st October, it will certainly be a remarkable feat of leadership, which quite frankly will put the leader of the opposition to shame.

Boris talks shite. If you believe him, fine.