[Politics] Brexit

[clapham_gull]

Of all the unpleasant, vindictive comments in the last few pages of this thread this one particularly stood out.
The irony of someone playing the intellectual snobbery card whilst displaying astonishing ignorance of whether GCSE Maths and English tell us anything about intelligence is astounding. That’s Richard Branson’s vote taken away then.

Richard Branson is a very good example of intelligence without formal qualifications.

He voted remain.

 

[Wrong-Direction]

I'll raise you, Michael Gove.

Cant argue with this

Sent from my SM-A600FN using Tapatalk

 

[pastafarian]

Are you suggesting that if in the next three weeks alternative arrangements for the Irish border were found and the backstop was then no longer required, the WA would not be changed?

Regardless, in a sense it wouldn't need to be changed as the backstop wouldn't be needed anyway.

Didn't Merkel state last week that we have 30 days (or an arbitrary short period of time) to put forward these alternative arrangements prior to the 31st deadline?

Nope, not suggesting that.
Stands to reason, if anything alternative, whatever it is, to the contents of the current withdrawal agreement is agreed by the EU and UK as a way forward to reach a deal it would require the current WA agreement to be changed to mirror the changing alternatives.
If any alternatives to the current WA were agreed by the UK and EU, which needed the current WA to be changed it would make the current position of the EU, that the WA is not up for renegotiation, to have been a waste of time.

 

[Boys 9d]

Just for the record.
A Polish friend assured me this evening that she had successfully applied for Settled Status using her I Phone. This surprised me as I thought only Android phones were available.

 

[pastafarian]

I'll raise you, Michael Gove.

i will raise you David Lammy

 

[Deleted member 2719]

I'll raise you, Michael Gove.

If you're looking for a tory to punch it has to be Rory Stewart.

 

[vegster]

i will raise you David Lammy

Second division compared to Gove.

 

[pastafarian]

Another Home Office Update 3 hours ago

Media reporting on the EU Settlement Scheme
30 August 2019 - Categories:Fact sheet, Rebuttals and clarifications


There are a number of inaccuracies and misconceptions around the EU Settlement Scheme at the moment, which we want to address head on. EU citizens and their families are our friends, neighbours and colleagues and we want them to stay. It’s vital that EU citizens and their families receive clear information on the Scheme through the media. The latest factual information on the Scheme is published in a media factsheet and you can apply for the Scheme on Gov.uk.

Have there been any refusals?

• As of the end of June, EU Settlement Scheme statistics confirm that not a single person had been refused.
• Nobody has been granted pre-settled status without first being offered the opportunity to submit evidence that they qualify for settled status.
• Whether someone has pre-settled status or settled status, this means they have been accepted through the Scheme and have secured their rights in UK law.
• On 15 August, the Home Office said that one million people had been granted status through the Scheme.

Why have 36% of EU citizens only been granted pre-settled status?

Some media interviews have suggested that pre-settled status is not giving EU citizens the certainty they need.

• Pre-settled status is usually granted to people who confirm that they been in the country for less than five years. This aligns with EU law whereby someone receives permanent residence status after five years.
• As of the end of June 2019, the proportion of those being granted settled and pre-settled status is broadly in line with expectations. This is based on the Annual Population Survey figures for the resident EEA population.
• EU citizens and their families have plenty of time to apply before the deadline but we are processing complete applications in around four days. They have until at least 31 December 2020 to apply.
• Nobody has been granted pre-settled status without first being offered the opportunity to submit evidence that they qualify for settled status.
• Both pre-settled status and settled status mean people can work, study, receive healthcare and access benefits and services as they do now.
• Once EU citizens and their families have five years residence, they can apply for settled status, which gives them leave on an indefinite basis.
• To be eligible for settled status a person usually needs to have been continuously resident in the UK for five years in a row for at least six months in any 12-month period.

Why do some people need to provide more evidence when applying?

A number of media outlets are reporting on cases of EU citizens who have been in the country for more than five years but have to provide more information as part of their application.

• Nobody has been granted pre-settled status without first being offered the opportunity to submit evidence that they qualify for settled status. We are looking to grant everyone the status they are eligible for.
• When applying, the system checks government data to see if it can confirm how long they have been in the UK. We use all the names provided in the application, including those that are on their passport or ID card and any other names that they tell us about.
• This makes it quicker for most people to apply. In testing, around three quarters of applicants did not need to provide more information but sometimes those automatic checks might not match all records straightaway and we may need more evidence before we grant someone settled status.
• This could be for a variety of reasons and it does not mean that applicants are refused settled status. It simply means we need more information from the applicant before we can grant it. This evidence can be as little as phone bills, utility bills, TV licence bills as well as letters from employers, doctors, schools, or charities, bank statements, mortgage agreements or TV licences.
• People should only ever be given pre-settled status when they confirm that it’s what they qualify for and never without being given the opportunity to demonstrate that they qualify for settled status.
• If an individual confirms they would like to apply for settled status but needs to submit further information, caseworkers always contact the applicant to discuss if any further evidence is needed.

Why have you not secured EU citizens’ rights in law?

Some media interviews have suggested that EU citizens’ rights are not secure and that further legislation is needed.

• The EU Settlement Scheme provides an immigration status in UK law, set out in the Immigration Rules.
• By being granted status through the EU Settlement Scheme, EU citizens and their families will have the immigration status they need to stay in the UK.
• EU citizens and their families have until at least 31 December 2020 to make an application.

Why don’t you just give EU citizens their rights without making them apply to the EU Settlement Scheme?

There are a lot of questions about why the government is making people apply to the EU Settlement Scheme. There are calls for EU citizens to simply be granted their rights without having to apply through the EU Settlement Scheme, which is known as a declaratory system.

• In developing the EU Settlement Scheme, it has been at the forefront of our thinking to ensure that the experiences of the Windrush generation are not repeated. One of the key lessons we have learnt from Windrush is that declaratory systems do not work.
• The EU Settlement Scheme means that, whether in four or 40 years’ time, EU citizens and their children will have the evidence that they need to continue accessing and benefiting from services in the UK as they do now.
• Free movement is ending and everyone entering the UK will need a form of UK immigration status. Put simply - EU citizens who are in the UK before we leave the EU will have different – enhanced - rights compared to those who come afterwards.
• It is essential, therefore, that EU citizens have the evidence that they can use to demonstrate their rights in the UK

What about the approach of the Home Office?

A number of outlets have also questioned the Home Office’s approach to granting status through the Scheme.

• The approach being taken by EU Settlement Scheme caseworkers is that they are always looking to grant status, not to refuse it. By the end of June, not a single person had been refused the status for which they applied.
• We have over 1,500 Home Office staff working on the Scheme including handling calls and emails in the Settlement Resolution Centre, helping people apply.
• There is a wide range of support available on the phone, email and in person for people making applications. This includes funding 57 organisations with up to £9m from the Home Office to help vulnerable EU citizens to apply. There are also 300 assisted digital locations across the UK where people can attend in person if they have limited computer skills or confidence with the online process.
• A postcode checker to find support in your local area for scanning documents or through organisations funded by the Home Office is on Gov.uk.

https://homeofficemedia.blog.gov.uk/2019/08/30/rebuttal-media-articles-on-the-eu-settlement-scheme/

 

[Eeyore]

If you're looking for a tory to punch it has to be Rory Stewart.

Tell me, what credentials do you have that surpass those of Rory Stewart ? The ex military, Harvard professor, governer in Iraq who has walked from Turkey to Nepal and has an understanding of international development which is unsurpassed. You're not fit to lick the shit off his walking boots.

 

[Eeyore]

Tedious
regards
DF

Which team do you support ?

 

[Lincoln Imp]

If there is an offer to re enter the EU after the 31st then im not sure how this sinks Johnson's strategy as that would mean we would have left being members of the EU (in order to re-enter)....which is sort of what he wants to achieve anyway.

Johnson's preferred strategy is surely to fight an election with Brexit out of the way and Farage neutered. An EU offer of the kind I described would keep the issue live, to Johnson's disadvantage, particularly if a no deal exit was, as it would be, proving a nightmare.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Which team do you support ?

Charity starts at home
Regards
DX

 

[Notters]

Nobody will be taking to the streets I'm afraid, after three years people are utterly sick of the whole business. It now looks like we'll be out on 31st October either with a deal or not.

I also think that if there is any serious negotiating going on then the governments hand has been strengthened after the events of this morning.

Looking forward to nobody taking to the streets at the 60-odd protests planned for tomorrow.

https://www.anothereurope.org/stopthecoup-join-the-nationwide-wave-of-protests/

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...CRAB&usg=AOvVaw2NTdUre4T6f9xy6Ex47v-L&ampcf=1
One reason to NEVER trust the lib dems
Regards
DQ

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Looking forward to nobody taking to the streets at the 60-odd protests planned for tomorrow.

https://www.anothereurope.org/stopthecoup-join-the-nationwide-wave-of-protests/

Let us know when it reaches 17.4 million , thanks
Regards
DZ

 

[The Rivet]

Tell me, what credentials do you have that surpass those of Rory Stewart ? The ex military, Harvard professor, governer in Iraq who has walked from Turkey to Nepal and has an understanding of international development which is unsurpassed. You're not fit to lick the shit off his walking boots.

Oh do shut up! His military career was extremely short.

Ps He is also unable to command the respect nor admiration of a massive amount of the populace. Not likeable at all.

 

[pastafarian]

Johnson's preferred strategy is surely to fight an election with Brexit out of the way and Farage neutered. An EU offer of the kind I described would keep the issue live, to Johnson's disadvantage, particularly if a no deal exit was, as it would be, proving a nightmare.

First things first eh. Worry about a post EU election if there is an election after we left. Your offer to re enter still confirms we have already left though in your scenario.

Cant really even envisage the EU coming up with such an offer after we have left. It would require them to rewrite the functioning treaties and redo the conditions of admission according to the accession treaties. Apart from doing that, you will have a bunch of countries saying why are the UK getting special terms in their membership application, we want special terms as well if you are doing two tier membership.
And all this as a 3 month offer?
Think I will file it under wishful thinking…….next door to my “ irrelevant porn” folder.

 

[The Rivet]

First things first eh. Worry about a post EU election if there is an election after we left. Your offer to re enter still confirms we have already left though in your scenario.

Cant really even envisage the EU coming up with such an offer after we have left. It would require them to rewrite the functioning treaties and redo the conditions of admission according to the accession treaties. Apart from doing that, you will have a bunch of countries saying why are the UK getting special terms in their membership application, we want special terms as well if you are doing two tier membership.
And all this as a 3 month offer?
Think I will file it under wishful thinking…….next door to my “ irrelevant porn” folder.

 

[Wardy's twin]

Oh do shut up! His military career was extremely short.

Ps He is also unable to command the respect nor admiration of a massive amount of the populace. Not likeable at all.

To be fair he is one of the better Tories and certainly had best ideas in the hustings.

 

[Wardy's twin]

Another Home Office Update 3 hours ago

Media reporting on the EU Settlement Scheme
30 August 2019 - Categories:Fact sheet, Rebuttals and clarifications


There are a number of inaccuracies and misconceptions around the EU Settlement Scheme at the moment, which we want to address head on. EU citizens and their families are our friends, neighbours and colleagues and we want them to stay. It’s vital that EU citizens and their families receive clear information on the Scheme through the media. The latest factual information on the Scheme is published in a media factsheet and you can apply for the Scheme on Gov.uk.

Have there been any refusals?

• As of the end of June, EU Settlement Scheme statistics confirm that not a single person had been refused.
• Nobody has been granted pre-settled status without first being offered the opportunity to submit evidence that they qualify for settled status.
• Whether someone has pre-settled status or settled status, this means they have been accepted through the Scheme and have secured their rights in UK law.
• On 15 August, the Home Office said that one million people had been granted status through the Scheme.

Why have 36% of EU citizens only been granted pre-settled status?

Some media interviews have suggested that pre-settled status is not giving EU citizens the certainty they need.

• Pre-settled status is usually granted to people who confirm that they been in the country for less than five years. This aligns with EU law whereby someone receives permanent residence status after five years.
• As of the end of June 2019, the proportion of those being granted settled and pre-settled status is broadly in line with expectations. This is based on the Annual Population Survey figures for the resident EEA population.
• EU citizens and their families have plenty of time to apply before the deadline but we are processing complete applications in around four days. They have until at least 31 December 2020 to apply.
• Nobody has been granted pre-settled status without first being offered the opportunity to submit evidence that they qualify for settled status.
• Both pre-settled status and settled status mean people can work, study, receive healthcare and access benefits and services as they do now.
• Once EU citizens and their families have five years residence, they can apply for settled status, which gives them leave on an indefinite basis.
• To be eligible for settled status a person usually needs to have been continuously resident in the UK for five years in a row for at least six months in any 12-month period.

Why do some people need to provide more evidence when applying?

A number of media outlets are reporting on cases of EU citizens who have been in the country for more than five years but have to provide more information as part of their application.

• Nobody has been granted pre-settled status without first being offered the opportunity to submit evidence that they qualify for settled status. We are looking to grant everyone the status they are eligible for.
• When applying, the system checks government data to see if it can confirm how long they have been in the UK. We use all the names provided in the application, including those that are on their passport or ID card and any other names that they tell us about.
• This makes it quicker for most people to apply. In testing, around three quarters of applicants did not need to provide more information but sometimes those automatic checks might not match all records straightaway and we may need more evidence before we grant someone settled status.
• This could be for a variety of reasons and it does not mean that applicants are refused settled status. It simply means we need more information from the applicant before we can grant it. This evidence can be as little as phone bills, utility bills, TV licence bills as well as letters from employers, doctors, schools, or charities, bank statements, mortgage agreements or TV licences.
• People should only ever be given pre-settled status when they confirm that it’s what they qualify for and never without being given the opportunity to demonstrate that they qualify for settled status.
• If an individual confirms they would like to apply for settled status but needs to submit further information, caseworkers always contact the applicant to discuss if any further evidence is needed.

Why have you not secured EU citizens’ rights in law?

Some media interviews have suggested that EU citizens’ rights are not secure and that further legislation is needed.

• The EU Settlement Scheme provides an immigration status in UK law, set out in the Immigration Rules.
• By being granted status through the EU Settlement Scheme, EU citizens and their families will have the immigration status they need to stay in the UK.
• EU citizens and their families have until at least 31 December 2020 to make an application.

Why don’t you just give EU citizens their rights without making them apply to the EU Settlement Scheme?

There are a lot of questions about why the government is making people apply to the EU Settlement Scheme. There are calls for EU citizens to simply be granted their rights without having to apply through the EU Settlement Scheme, which is known as a declaratory system.

• In developing the EU Settlement Scheme, it has been at the forefront of our thinking to ensure that the experiences of the Windrush generation are not repeated. One of the key lessons we have learnt from Windrush is that declaratory systems do not work.
• The EU Settlement Scheme means that, whether in four or 40 years’ time, EU citizens and their children will have the evidence that they need to continue accessing and benefiting from services in the UK as they do now.
• Free movement is ending and everyone entering the UK will need a form of UK immigration status. Put simply - EU citizens who are in the UK before we leave the EU will have different – enhanced - rights compared to those who come afterwards.
• It is essential, therefore, that EU citizens have the evidence that they can use to demonstrate their rights in the UK

What about the approach of the Home Office?

A number of outlets have also questioned the Home Office’s approach to granting status through the Scheme.

• The approach being taken by EU Settlement Scheme caseworkers is that they are always looking to grant status, not to refuse it. By the end of June, not a single person had been refused the status for which they applied.
• We have over 1,500 Home Office staff working on the Scheme including handling calls and emails in the Settlement Resolution Centre, helping people apply.
• There is a wide range of support available on the phone, email and in person for people making applications. This includes funding 57 organisations with up to £9m from the Home Office to help vulnerable EU citizens to apply. There are also 300 assisted digital locations across the UK where people can attend in person if they have limited computer skills or confidence with the online process.
• A postcode checker to find support in your local area for scanning documents or through organisations funded by the Home Office is on Gov.uk.

https://homeofficemedia.blog.gov.uk/2019/08/30/rebuttal-media-articles-on-the-eu-settlement-scheme/

Too late a lot of EU citizens have already made their mind up and decided to leave. For those people who live in Brighton a significant percentage of our local NHS staff are From the EU and we will be f*cked if they go.