[Politics] Brexit

[Lincoln Imp]

Interesting comment from Gordon Brown. Basically, if the EU extend the date, and we do go out with no deal, then Johnson cannot blame the EU because it will be his decision and his alone.

[tweet]1167364545964367873[/tweet]

Taking this a step further, the EU could do one thing that would completely sink Johnson's strategy. It could announce that while it has no intention of interfering with a sovereign nation's freedom to make its own decisions, it has unilaterally decided to allow the UK to re-enter the Union on current terms for a period of three months after 31 October 2019. This could be further extended in order to allow a general election or referendum.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

When are people going to realise he is a wind up second account that is possibly better then Enrest, which isn't saying much

What, the actual ppf and not the fake ppf? The actual ppf is a genuine person, true to his presentation. First name begins with S

The fake PPF is of course a well-known poster

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

You are being double penetrated?

Great game this. I'm now convinced it isn't him being clever.

I sometimes look at our cat and think 'he loves me' and he gives me a look of love. Except he doesn't. He's a cat. He has a brain the size of an acorn. That wasn't a smile, it was just a coincidence.

I had high hopes for the fairy. Trust me to put money on a loser. Luckily it was fake money.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

We should, once Boris and his ruling cronies are kicked out, introduce legislation that only people with reasonable graded GCSEs in English and Maths can vote in an election or referendum. Any one at any age beyond the usual school age can also take the exams, so no one is excluded

Of all the unpleasant, vindictive comments in the last few pages of this thread this one particularly stood out.
The irony of someone playing the intellectual snobbery card whilst displaying astonishing ignorance of whether GCSE Maths and English tell us anything about intelligence is astounding. That’s Richard Branson’s vote taken away then.

 

[pastafarian]

I see, yes you are right.

The EU could just say "we are happy to extend for another 3/6 months etc. in order to avoid no deal, do you want this?".

Except a further extension does not avoid leaving with no deal, it just extends leaving with no deal to another date when and if there is no withdrawal agreement that parliament can agree on to replace No Deal.
Considering there is currently no WA not sure why Boris would agree to leaving with no deal in say 3 or 6 months rather than on oct 31st , when he has been quite clear that in the absence of any deal that the UK parliament will pass and the absence of any prospects of negotiations to re configure the WA we should put the action of leaving to bed on Oct 31st and leave and move forward.

The WA is negotiable.

As soon as the alternative arrangements become apparent then there is no need for the backstop and this aspect can be removed.

At the moment we have 30 (20?) days to find and agree these alternative arrangements, which isn't much time, another 400 days would help.

Worth noting some points from the original EU Council agreement to extension


2. In response, the European Council agrees to an extension to allow for the ratification of the Withdrawal Agreement. Such an extension should last only as long as necessary and, in any event, no longer than 31 October 2019

4. The European Council reiterates that there can be no opening of the Withdrawal Agreement……

5. The European Council stresses that such an extension cannot be used to start negotiations on the future relationship. However, if the position of the United Kingdom were to evolve, the European Council is prepared to reconsider the Political Declaration on the future relationship in accordance with the positions and principles stated in its guidelines and statements, including as regards the territorial scope of the future relationship.


https://www.consilium.europa.eu/media/39042/10-euco-art50-conclusions-en.pdf


The EU seem quite clear the WA itself is not negotiable during the extension, there is scope to change the political declaration on the future relationship however. Is there a possibility to push the backstop under the scope of the political declaration instead of the withdrawal agreement? It’s a big ask. It would give Boris his win as it would mean the UK could pull out of any future potential backstop should the EU and UK not be able to agree a trade deal in the future (neither side wants a situation where the backstop becomes implemented anyway, both sides want a trade deal with no active backstop) and gives the EU a win of sorts (debatable), as the backstop will still be an insurance even though no longer legally binding.
The only other hurdle in this long shot hypothetical is parliament, would they do everything possible to stop leaving with no deal and accept a deal package with the backstop in the political declaration or continue saying no and continue to be enablers of leaving with no deal?

 

[beorhthelm]

I have some sympathy with this view.

[tweet]1167434247961010176[/tweet]

im sadden by it, people perptuating fear. Sanofi have been banging on about flu vaccine shortages for over a year, not telling journalist they only account for 20% of the market and we can cover that by home production, which we export back to the EU. im led to believe some of their stock is produced under licence in UK anyway.

 

[Hampster Gull]

Of all the unpleasant, vindictive comments in the last few pages of this thread this one particularly stood out.
The irony of someone playing the intellectual snobbery card whilst displaying astonishing ignorance of whether GCSE Maths and English tell us anything about intelligence is astounding. That’s Richard Branson’s vote taken away then.

It was a tongue in check, joining in with the rest of the vile on this thread.

 

[pastafarian]

Taking this a step further, the EU could do one thing that would completely sink Johnson's strategy. It could announce that while it has no intention of interfering with a sovereign nation's freedom to make its own decisions, it has unilaterally decided to allow the UK to re-enter the Union on current terms for a period of three months after 31 October 2019. This could be further extended in order to allow a general election or referendum.

If there is an offer to re enter the EU after the 31st then im not sure how this sinks Johnson's strategy as that would mean we would have left being members of the EU (in order to re-enter)....which is sort of what he wants to achieve anyway.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

It was a tongue in check, joining in with the rest of the vile recently on this thread.

Fair enough. Sorry to tar you with the same brush.I only recently returned to this thread and have found that the same people are just a couple of years more bitter and unpleasant. It’s pretty clearly not the place to come for decent debate about Brexit.

 

[Hampster Gull]

Fair enough. Sorry to tar you with the same brush.I only recently returned to this thread and have found that the same people are just a couple of years more bitter and unpleasant. It’s pretty clearly not the place to come for decent debate about Brexit.

I had a fair amount of time out too but have been popping back in recently. It’s a war zone. But you’re right, my comments in isolation were very poor taste and even as a joke shouldn’t have been posted

 

[Wrong-Direction]

[emoji38]ol:

Great game this. I'm now convinced it isn't him being clever.

I sometimes look at our cat and think 'he loves me' and he gives me a look of love. Except he doesn't. He's a cat. He has a brain the size of an acorn. That wasn't a smile, it was just a coincidence.

I had high hopes for the fairy. Trust me to put money on a loser. Luckily it was fake money.

Wrong! He was plotting to kill you

Sent from my SM-A600FN using Tapatalk

 

[symyjym]

Boris stopping a No Deal option in Parliament doesn't stop the EU choosing to No Deal us.

We can't make No Deal not an option.

 

[pb21]

Except a further extension does not avoid leaving with no deal, it just extends leaving with no deal to another date when and if there is no withdrawal agreement that parliament can agree on to replace No Deal.
Considering there is currently no WA not sure why Boris would agree to leaving with no deal in say 3 or 6 months rather than on oct 31st , when he has been quite clear that in the absence of any deal that the UK parliament will pass and the absence of any prospects of negotiations to re configure the WA we should put the action of leaving to bed on Oct 31st and leave and move forward.





Worth noting some points from the original EU Council agreement to extension


2. In response, the European Council agrees to an extension to allow for the ratification of the Withdrawal Agreement. Such an extension should last only as long as necessary and, in any event, no longer than 31 October 2019

4. The European Council reiterates that there can be no opening of the Withdrawal Agreement……

5. The European Council stresses that such an extension cannot be used to start negotiations on the future relationship. However, if the position of the United Kingdom were to evolve, the European Council is prepared to reconsider the Political Declaration on the future relationship in accordance with the positions and principles stated in its guidelines and statements, including as regards the territorial scope of the future relationship.


https://www.consilium.europa.eu/media/39042/10-euco-art50-conclusions-en.pdf


The EU seem quite clear the WA itself is not negotiable during the extension, there is scope to change the political declaration on the future relationship however. Is there a possibility to push the backstop under the scope of the political declaration instead of the withdrawal agreement? It’s a big ask. It would give Boris his win as it would mean the UK could pull out of any future potential backstop should the EU and UK not be able to agree a trade deal in the future (neither side wants a situation where the backstop becomes implemented anyway, both sides want a trade deal with no active backstop) and gives the EU a win of sorts (debatable), as the backstop will still be an insurance even though no longer legally binding.
The only other hurdle in this long shot hypothetical is parliament, would they do everything possible to stop leaving with no deal and accept a deal package with the backstop in the political declaration or continue saying no and continue to be enablers of leaving with no deal?

Are you suggesting that if in the next three weeks alternative arrangements for the Irish border were found and the backstop was then no longer required, the WA would not be changed?

Regardless, in a sense it wouldn't need to be changed as the backstop wouldn't be needed anyway.

Didn't Merkel state last week that we have 30 days (or an arbitrary short period of time) to put forward these alternative arrangements prior to the 31st deadline?

 

[vegster]

im sadden by it, people perptuating fear. Sanofi have been banging on about flu vaccine shortages for over a year, not telling journalist they only account for 20% of the market and we can cover that by home production, which we export back to the EU. im led to believe some of their stock is produced under licence in UK anyway.

TBH, the annual 'Flu vaccine is a gamble each year anyway, in order to have enough vaccine ready for the autumn the manufacturers have to guess in spring which 3 of the multiple strains of 'flu are going to be the most prevalent. If that guess changes the vaccine is next to useless anyway.

 

[shingle]

Of all the unpleasant, vindictive comments in the last few pages of this thread this one particularly stood out.
The irony of someone playing the intellectual snobbery card whilst displaying astonishing ignorance of whether GCSE Maths and English tell us anything about intelligence is astounding. That’s Richard Branson’s vote taken away then.

And Alan Sugar too, that's two prominent remainers out of the game.

 

[theonlymikey]

Boris stopping a No Deal option in Parliament doesn't stop the EU choosing to No Deal us.

We can't make No Deal not an option.

So in other words, given the choice, we would rather shoot ourselves in the head instead of the EU pulling the trigger.

Seems sensible.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

 

[Razzoo]

I have some sympathy with this view.

[tweet]1167434247961010176[/tweet]

Terry Christian is an obsolete little Manc wanker.

 

[Deleted member 2719]

Terry Christian is an obsolete little Manc wanker.

And probably has the most punchable face of all time.

 

[vegster]

And probably has the most punchable face of all time.

I'll raise you, Michael Gove.

 

[symyjym]

So in other words, given the choice, we would rather shoot ourselves in the head instead of the EU pulling the trigger.

Seems sensible.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

You could put it that way I guess.

At least Boris can blame the EU for the No Deal and not be responsible for it himself. It may be a good tactic for him.

My point really is that people have forgotten that No Deal won't be taken off the table despite parliament being suspended.