[Politics] Brexit

[Westdene Seagull]

The biggest takeaway from the Brecon result is not that there is no mandate for a no deal Brexit - we knew that already. It is that Labour are a busted flush with Corbyn in charge. Nobody is going to vote for them.

I'm sure it's all the fault of Peter Mandelson and Alistair Campbell though.

Although you do need to take into account that Labour haven't held this seat for decades - it's mostly been Lib Dem. That said, the next GE could be interesting - I'm going to predict a 4 way tie between Tories, Labour, Lib Dems and Brexit Party. How they form a government out of that is anyone's guess !

 

[Simster]

Although you do need to take into account that Labour haven't held this seat for decades - it's mostly been Lib Dem. That said, the next GE could be interesting - I'm going to predict a 4 way tie between Tories, Labour, Lib Dems and Brexit Party. How they form a government out of that is anyone's guess !

Consensus, pragmatic politics is exactly what this country needs. Obviously supporters of the two big parties don't like it. The Labour bleaters continue to call the Lib Dems "Tory enablers" and it would have been the same with Tory voters if they'd got into bed with Labour in 2010 instead.

Oh and that consensus is clearly an outcome that respects the referendum result but does not entail acting like a puppy to the ERG who now tell us exactly what leave meant. That consensus is to leave the EU but stay in the customs union, and pay for access to the common market- a new, entity similar to EFTA. Anything else rips up the GFA, which ought to be the only red line.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

When we leave, I'll not particularly be fussed about re-joining ( on no doubt worse terms ).

But I will be very keen to re-join EFTA ( don't forget we left EFTA to join the CM/EEC/EU in the first place - it's not allowed to be in both EFTA and the EU !) - and thus get the existing EFTA trade deals for free.

From there we could pay for EEA membership for the 10+ years it would take to negotiate a full Switzerland type deal with the EU.

Brexit ( done right ) is fine; *No deal Brexit* would be cataclysmic.

 

[Gwylan]

That consensus is to leave the EU but stay in the customs union, and pay for access to the common market- a new, entity similar to EFTA. Anything else rips up the GFA, which ought to be the only red line.

Which is roughly what I said should happen three years ago. If they'd agreed all that at the outset, everyone (but particularly businesses) would be in a stronger position and the pound would certainly be healthier.

Still, I'm doing a lot more work for US companies and being paid in dollars now. Silver lining and all that ...

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Labour are getting pounded.

I would say it would be a worry for them, but it won’t be as Jezza is in charge still.

As much of a cult as the ERG

 

[Simster]

When we leave, I'll not particularly be fussed about re-joining ( on no doubt worse terms ).

But I will be very keen to re-join EFTA ( don't forget we left EFTA to join the CM/EEC/EU in the first place - it's not allowed to be in both EFTA and the EU !) - and thus get the existing EFTA trade deals for free.

From there we could pay for EEA membership for the 10+ years it would take to negotiate a full Switzerland type deal with the EU.

Brexit ( done right ) is fine; *No deal Brexit* would be cataclysmic.

We won't be allowed into EFTA, we'll have to form our own similar parallel arrangment to EFTA.

 

[CHAPPERS]

I would think a fair amount of Labour voted Lib Dem against the Tories in that election so no great surprise there. There will be huge unofficial cross party voting aginst Alexander Johnson moving forward.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Labour are getting pounded.

I would say it would be a worry for them, but it won’t be as Jezza is in charge still.

As much of a cult as the ERG

Except Labour haven't finished higher than 3rd in that seat since a by-election 34 years ago, they haven't won it since 1974, they led a token campaign in this by-election so not to step on The Lib Dems toes, and there was as much tactical voting done by their core voters there as there would have been Plaid Cmyru or Green ones.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Apparently there's a document circulating Whitehall containing an analysis of something called RWCS: Reasonable Worst Case Scenarios. It's been leaked to The Guardian and contains some very scary stuff. What with this and the £6 billion being spent on Brexit (ie essentially being 'spaffed up a wall' - just think what else it could have been spent on), don't any of our Brexiteer friends just occasionally think that it could be rather good if the Brexit genie could be put back in its box? Did you really think it would turn out so badly - and we ain't seen nothing yet...……………………..(you don't have to publicly admit it, just reflect a little).

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...with-hard-brexit-than-in-spring-say-officials

The Sky News piece that shows the document on that is here - https://news.sky.com/story/uk-faces...deal-brexit-says-government-document-11775217

I thought Sam Gyimah's Tweet the other day summed it up quite well:

[tweet]1156808680559587328[/tweet]

 

[Baldseagull]

Yes, I'm aware of his former user name. He may be a Nazi; he may a (very successful) wind-up merchant, I don't know. It's not difficult to wind up some people on here, especially on this thread.
So, he wants us to leave the EU, and maybe he is a Nazi - but to extrapolate from that that anybody who agrees with him about leaving the EU, nothing else is a Nazi too is just ****wittery of the first order. Or if not an actual Nazi, at least a racist, fascist, right-wing, thick old person..........

.........and please don't try and tell me some of your fellow remainers haven't done exactly that. Getting close to 100,000 posts on this thread now - gratuitous insults from remainers up to five figures? You could bet your mortgage on it!

Over 90,000 posts on here now - the number of such posts must be well into five figures by now.

Yeah that would be **** wittery, but that is not what is happening. The various bans Ppf has received over years suggest that if he is just a wind up merchant, he is very committed to staying in character, a method actor perhaps? Or more likely, he is what he appears to be. Your "if's" are straying into Frank Doberman territory.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Except Labour haven't finished higher than 3rd in that seat since a by-election 34 years ago, they haven't won it since 1974, they led a token campaign in this by-election so not to step on The Lib Dems toes, and there was as much tactical voting done by their core voters there as there would have been Plaid Cmyru or Green ones.

If they had a view of Brexit there is no way they would have done as badly.

 

[Baldseagull]

Portillo has never nailed anything in his life.

The boys he went to school with will tell you otherwise.

 

[ManOfSussex]

If they had a view of Brexit there is no way they would have done as badly.

As pointed out on the by-election thread for this, the Labour candidate was 'invisible' according to an NSC poster who lives in that constituency. I'd read prior to the result they'd made as much effort targeting this seat as the Green's and Plaid who both stood down for The Lib Dems. At the end of the day, it's a by-election in a 2 horse race constituency that they no longer run in or are bothered to put a fight up for, with tactical voting and a 17% drop in turnout since the General Election.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

As pointed out on the by-election thread for this, the Labour candidate was 'invisible' according to a NSC poster who lives in that constituency. I'd read prior to the result they'd made as much effort targeting this seat as the Green's and Plaid who both stood down for The Lib Dems. At the end of the day, it's a by-election in a 2 horse race constituency that they no longer run in or bothered to put a fight up for, with tactical voting and a 17% drop in turnout since the General Election.

But why?

If they were confident of making grounds (as we told they are) they would have campaigned properly.

I didn’t see the by election thread - lll take this there.

 

[Baldseagull]

Obviously. But we are about to, never mind all the hand wringing and/or Raleigh Chopper's piss.
None taken, you are entitled to your opinion but you lost the vote.

And I'm not thick, and nor are the Brexit voters I know personally. Very intelligent people who can think outside the box.

I have seen some of this thinking outside of the box, the zero rating of all or nearly all imports is an example. The admitted price of this is annihilation of domestic farming and manufacturing, the side effect, low to zero interest in anyone doing a trade deal with us.

 

[ManOfSussex]

But why?

If they were confident of making grounds (as we told they are) they would have campaigned properly.

I didn’t see the by election thread - lll take this there.

Because it's not a target seat for them. It's a Lib Dem/Tory seat. Look locally for other examples - Labour don't target Eastbourne because they know they haven't a chance. The Lib Dems haven't got a chance in Hastings and Rye and were invisible at the last General Election, as they will be at the next one. The Tories haven't a pray in Brighton Pavilion etc.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Because it's not a target seat for them. It's a Lib Dem/Tory seat. Look locally for other examples - Labour don't target Eastbourne because they know they haven't a chance. The Lib Dems haven't got a chance in Hastings and Rye and were invisible at the last General Election, as they will be at the next one. The Tories haven't a pray in Brighton Pavilion etc.

Fair enough.

I personally think it looks terrible that they come 2000 votes behind the Brexit party.

 

[Deleted member 2719]

You learn something every day.
I had no idea it was possible to be that childish and ignorant at the same time.
I wish someone would own up to draining the swamp and allowing these ridiculously thick Brexiteers to keep spouting their drivel day after day, similar pattern with all the leavers on here, bloody pond life the lot of them, not one can see the danger of a no deal exit.
Not one is worth the steam off of my piss.
No offence meant.

Same old insults, from an evil undemocratic person.

Right words, wrong side.

I would not have liked it if remain had won, but I would have accepted it and got on with it. However, if the lib Dems and the Coopers and Kyles of this world get their way and have a second referendum they would see millions take the fight back at them if they won this time, this would go on in a never-ending circle, they are wasting taxpayers money on a result that they don't like these so-called MPs are playing with our kids future, of growth and prosperity they are unable to understand the bigger picture that they are destroying the UK.
They need to give it up and get on with what was voted for.

amazing just amazing

Thanks.

 

[Klaas]

I haven't done that - I've no idea whether he is or not (and I also bear in mind that a few NSCers definition of a Nazi is in itself somewhat extreme!) If someone calls him a Nazi, and he is, that's fair enough. If somebody calls him a Nazi solely because he supports Brexit then that particular somebody really has got their knickers in a twist!

I'm convinced you search the board looking for posts that might be construed as derogatory towards brexiters.
It's amazing how literally no brexiter will simply tell DAS REICH to f off. He's been banned for his opinions before and he's shared a youtube channel on this very thread that is full of the KKK's David Duke. Been pointed out many a time, yet not a peep from any brexiter. Personally I don't like the way Plook is going about it, but it's not as bad as posters offering a defence for the poster who calls himself Das Reich. Don't want him banned myself, just like to point out what he is from time to time.
You'd think anti anti-semitism warrior JCFG would be all over it. Strangely he isn't.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Fair enough.

I personally think it looks terrible that they come 2000 votes behind the Brexit party.

True, but as they didn't put up a campaign and left it to The Lib Dems, as well as the other factors I've said, it's not really a surprise. Look at it another way - they could only finish 3rd in that seat when they won a landslide in the 1997 General Election. I'd hazard a guess this morning they're about as bothered about the result/quietly pleased The Lib Dems won it and not The Tories, as they were then.