[Politics] Brexit

[Simster]

True, but as they didn't put up a campaign and left it to The Lib Dems, as well as the other factors I've said, it's not really a surprise. Look at it another way - they could only finish 3rd in that seat when they won a landslide in the 1997 General Election. I'd hazard a guess this morning they're about as bothered about the result/quietly pleased The Lib Dems won it and not The Tories, as they were then.

Why do you say they are quietly pleased the Lib Dems won it over the Tories? Who knows what Labour stand for? The LibDems are "Tory enablers" according to Corbyn apologists on here so not much difference there, but one difference is that they are anti Brexit whereas nobody knows what the Labour party position is on Brexit.

Perhaps if Labour had bothered campaigning rather than falling 2,000 votes behind a pressure group, their vote haul would at least have shown them what people actually think of them.

 

[WATFORD zero]

I did suggest that you stick to posting 'LEAVE means LEAVE' and 'Undeocratic Loons' and leave the detailed bits to others a few days ago. But no, you decide to try and get involved.

After 3 years, it has finally sunk in that your Brexit may not be the simple task that the leave campaign promised would be and you are now, after two failed attempts at leaving, starting to get desperate. So you start making politically naive, unimplementable suggestions of how to change the agreement that the EU and Britain have already come to, with no regard whatsoever to the integrity of the EUs single market.

Only adjusting what has already been agreed. I suggested making the backstop temporary adding the ability to withdraw with x amount of notice (unlikely to ever be triggered) as I believe it would break the deadlock so we could officially leave and move to the future trade relationship negotiations. There's an awful lot of bluff and intransigence at the moment once we are officially out it should all calm down and the time pressure will reduce. The more comprehensive the trade deal the fewer problems at the borders and less need for new technological solutions.

I then point out that if we are going to ignore the EU, then simply ignore them completely, 'only adjusting what has already been agreed' and decide what we want, then we could get the magic 'Good deal' that the Leave campaign had been promising since day 1.

If you are only adjusting what Britain and the EU have already agreed, why don't you just take the backstop out completely, and let us trade freely with the EU as at present whilst not making any contribution to the EU and not having to abide by any of their rules or regulations, and that gets rid of the NI/Ireland problem as well ?

That would break the deadlock, give Britain the type of 'Good Deal' that the Leave campaign always promised, and give us the way forward.

After all, it's 'Only adjusting what has already been agreed'

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You get all upset at me pointing out how ridiculous your 'possible solution' is and then you want to know why I don't suggest solutions to this total clusterf*** you and your fellow leavers have managed to get yourselves into over the last 3 years

I'm suggesting a possible solution, here's a novel idea why don't you try to come up with some ideas? It would make a pleasant change from your usual I pretend to know everything while constantly proving the opposite, backslapping contributions.

Take my advice from a couple of days ago. Stick with vacuous optimism and believe more. I really think that's the area where your strengths lie

 

[ManOfSussex]

Why do you say they are quietly pleased the Lib Dems won it over the Tories? Who knows what Labour stand for? The LibDems are "Tory enablers" according to Corbyn apologists on here so not much difference there, but one difference is that they are anti Brexit whereas nobody knows what the Labour party position is on Brexit.

Perhaps if Labour had bothered campaigning rather than falling 2,000 votes behind a pressure group, their vote haul would at least have shown them what people actually think of them.

Why do I say they are quietly pleased the Lib Dems won it? I would have thought the fact the Tories majority in Westminister is now down to one would make that rather obvious. Why should they put up a fight in a seat they can't win just to split the vote and risk the Tories holding it?

 

[Simster]

Why do I say they are quietly pleased the Lib Dems won it? I would have thought the fact the Tories majority in Westminister is now down to one would make that rather obvious. Why should they put up a fight in a seat they can't win just to split the vote and risk the Tories holding it?

Under normal circumstances, that would be reasonable analysis, but the difference between now and previous times when the Tories were weak in power is that today it doesn't also follow that it means Labour are strong. They're not, they're unelectable and could find themselves decimated everywhere - in Scotland the SNP will hammer them. In Labour working class heartlands, they will see their default large share eaten into by the Brexit party. In middle class remain-leaning swing seats, anti-Tory voters will turn to the Lib Dems.

They are in a complete mess.

 

[Wardy's twin]

No, I said to you it was pointless discussing pre-referendum voting arguments as to whether we should or should not vote to leave the EU.
The voting has finished and a result has been declared.
No one has to justify to you why they put their X where they did. The childish arrogance of some people (and its all remainers) demanding others justify to them the way they voted is breath-taking.

I am not trying to get a justification of why you voted, it was a free vote and people made their decisions. What I would like from you or any leavers is some thoughts on what you perceive as benefits. I am worried about the future as I can't see them if they are there then it should be easy to state a few.

 

[WATFORD zero]

And I'm not thick, and nor are the Brexit voters I know personally. Very intelligent people who can think outside the box.

Maybe you should get some of these very intelligent leavers that you know to think inside the box that they have managed to paint themselves into

 

[ManOfSussex]

Under normal circumstances, that would be reasonable analysis, but the difference between now and previous times when the Tories were weak in power is that today it doesn't also follow that it means Labour are strong.

They're not, they're unelectable and could find themselves decimated everywhere - in Scotland the SNP will hammer them. In Labour working class heartlands, they will see their default large share eaten into by the Brexit party. In middle class remain-leaning swing seats, anti-Tory voters will turn to the Lib Dems. They are in a complete mess.

I don't disagree with you there and the Tories will be hammered in Scotland by The SNP when they sweep the board as well as Labour, but they're going to have finally take a definitive position on Brexit prior to the next election or face what you say, which could well be this year. This morning though, my assertion that they're quietly pleased with last night's result, in a seat they haven't won in 45 years, could only finish 3rd in at the '97 landslide election and quietly left to the Lib Dems in terms of not campaigning at a by-election this time, still stands and is probably a little conservative to their true feeling knowing what the Tories majority is now. (no pun intended)

The ultimate problem for Labour and all parties though is the times we are in are utterly unprecedented and the country as a whole is in as big a mess, rudderless, clueless and divided as Labour, or any other political party. Beating one party up for not doing what they should be doing against another, particularly when both main parties are led by Corbyn and Johnson in the times we are in, is a bit futile now.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I would not have liked it if remain had won, but I would have accepted it and got on with it. However, if the lib Dems and the Coopers and Kyles of this world get their way and have a second referendum they would see millions take the fight back at them if they won this time, this would go on in a never-ending circle, they are wasting taxpayers money on a result that they don't like these so-called MPs are playing with our kids future, of growth and prosperity they are unable to understand the bigger picture that they are destroying the UK.
They need to give it up and get on with what was voted for.



Thanks.

Mouldy, I know you love a wind up, but show me how remainers are wasting tax payers money.
The Tories have spent £2.1billion on this wonderful Brexit, for what benefit?
Just one benefit from Brexit please, just one.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

I did suggest that you stick to posting 'LEAVE means LEAVE' and 'Undeocratic Loons' and leave the detailed bits to others a few days ago. But no, you decide to try and get involved.

After 3 years, it has finally sunk in that your Brexit may not be the simple task that the leave campaign promised would be and you are now, after two failed attempts at leaving, starting to get desperate. So you start making politically naive, unimplementable suggestions of how to change the agreement that the EU and Britain have come to, with no regard whatsoever to the integrity of the EUs single market.



I then point out that if we are going to ignore the EU, then simply ignore them completely, 'only adjusting what has already been agreed' and decide what we want, then we could get the magic 'Good deal' that the Leave campaign had been promising since day 1.



You get all upset at me pointing out how ridiculous your 'possible solution' is and then you want to know why I don't suggest solutions to this total clusterf*** you and your fellow leavers have managed to get yourselves into over the last 3 years



Take my advice from a couple of days ago. Stick with vacuous optimism and believe more. I really think that's the area where your strengths lie

As usual, you assume all leavers believe absolutely everything they are told during campaigns (we're not all from Middlesborough) and have no capacity to filter out the bullshit just so you can go ner ner ner ner ner, stop embarrassing yourself. Time for you to find all those quotes where I claimed leaving would be a simple task ...

I came up with a solution which would almost certainly get through the HoC, end the time pressure and kick the border issues can down the road. It would have to be agreed (unlikely but not impossible) by the EU to be implemented so not ignoring them at all. The integrity of the single market would be protected in exactly the same way as under the current deal, it would only end if the UK wanted to trigger the exit clause with x months notice. Of course, you don't want to engage constructively, your entire shtick is slapping yourself on the back for stating the bleeding obvious, blended with misrepresenting or straw-manning leavers opinions just so you can feel superior about yourself.

 

[WATFORD zero]

As usual, you assume all leavers believe absolutely everything they are told during campaigns (we're not all from Middlesborough) and have no capacity to filter out the bullshit just so you can go ner ner ner ner ner, stop embarrassing yourself. Time for you to find all those quotes where I claimed leaving would be a simple task ...

I came up with a solution which would almost certainly get through the HoC, end the time pressure and kick the border issues can down the road. It would have to be agreed (unlikely but not impossible) by the EU to be implemented so not ignoring them at all. The integrity of the single market would be protected in exactly the same way as under the current deal, it would only end if the UK wanted to trigger the exit clause with x months notice. Of course, you don't want to engage constructively, your entire shtick is slapping yourself on the back for stating the bleeding obvious, blended with misrepresenting or straw-manning leavers opinions just so you can feel superior about yourself.

Read your own post. Even you admit that 'kicking the can down the road' AGAIN is the most that can be achieved. The Integrity of the EU's single market would be protected until a third party nation decide otherwise. They will definitely go for that, Brilliant plan.

The simple fact is that you haven't come up with a 'solution' that would get agreed by the EU, with very good reason. What you have done is taken a very simple view of this is what WE want, exactly as the Leave campaign did.

As I said above (and you know how I HATE repeating myself) I would suggest that if you are going to ignore what the EU want, then my 'solution' is far better

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Read your own post. Even you admit that 'kicking the can down the road' is the most that can be achieved.

But the simple fact is that you haven't come up with a 'solution' that would get agreed by the EU, with very good reason. What you have done is taken a very simple view of this is what WE want.

As I said above (and you know how I HATE repeating myself) I would suggest that if you are going to ignore the EU, then my 'solution' is far better

Avoided no-deal and we would have legally left the EU.

Depends if the Irish blink, the Boris Brexiteer government seems to be a very different proposition from May's remainer one (although the parliamentary arithmetic remains the issue).

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

The Tories have lost another MP.

LibDem gain Brecon.

The Monster Raving Looney Party got more votes than UKIP.

But the Brexit party pushed labour into 4th tactical voting got the lib dems in , keep it real
regards
DR

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Yeah that would be **** wittery, but that is not what is happening. The various bans Ppf has received over years suggest that if he is just a wind up merchant, he is very committed to staying in character, a method actor perhaps? Or more likely, he is what he appears to be. Your "if's" are straying into Frank Doberman territory.

Clueless , the obsession continues for the "gang " ,keep up the good work though
Regards
DR

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Read your own post. Even you admit that 'kicking the can down the road' AGAIN is the most that can be achieved. The Integrity of the EU's single market would be protected until a third party nation decide otherwise. They will definitely go for that, Brilliant plan.

The simple fact is that you haven't come up with a 'solution' that would get agreed by the EU, with very good reason. What you have done is taken a very simple view of this is what WE want, exactly as the Leave campaign did.

As I said above (and you know how I HATE repeating myself) I would suggest that if you are going to ignore what the EU want, then my 'solution' is far better

Do you talk to yourself out of interest ?
regards
DR

 

[Thunder Bolt]

But the Brexit party pushed labour into 4th tactical voting got the lib dems in , keep it real

The Tories had an 8000 majority last time.

https://electionresults.parliament..../Location/Constituency/Brecon and Radnorshire


The Brexit company got 3,331, UKIP 242, and Monster Raving Looney Party 334 votes
Add it up. Even the 1,860 votes for Labour (who didn't bother doing much campaigning) don't make up the 8000 missing votes.
The LibDems probably picked up the Plaid Cymru votes.

The Tories were arrogant thinking they could still field a convicted criminal, as their candidate despite a petition recalling him, because of his conviction. The people of Brecon & Radnor told them where they could stick it.


Chris Davies (CON) - 12,401
Tom Davies (LAB) - 1,680
Jane Dodds (LD) - 13,826
Des Parkinson (BXP) - 3,331
Liz Phillips (UKIP) - 242
Lily the Pink (MRLP) - 334
Turnout - 59.72% (a good turnout for a by election. It's usually less than 50%)


PS I know you will just dismiss this with one of your emojis, but this post isn't really for you, but other contributors to this thread.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Mouldy, I know you love a wind up, but show me how remainers are wasting tax payers money.
The Tories have spent £2.1billion on this wonderful Brexit, for what benefit?
Just one benefit from Brexit please, just one.

We don't have to pay the EU a penny
regards
DR

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

The Tories had an 8000 majority last time.

https://electionresults.parliament..../Location/Constituency/Brecon and Radnorshire


The Brexit company got 3,331, UKIP 242, and Monster Raving Looney Party 334 votes
Add it up. Even the 1,860 votes for Labour (who didn't bother doing much campaigning) don't make up the 8000 missing votes.
The LibDems probably picked up the Plaid Cymru votes.

The Tories were arrogant thinking they could still field a convicted criminal, as their candidate despite a petition recalling him, because of his conviction. The people of Brecon & Radnor told them where they could stick it.


Chris Davies (CON) - 12,401
Tom Davies (LAB) - 1,680
Jane Dodds (LD) - 13,826
Des Parkinson (BXP) - 3,331
Liz Phillips (UKIP) - 242
Lily the Pink (MRLP) - 334
Turnout - 59.72% (a good turnout for a by election. It's usually less than 50%)


PS I know you will just dismiss this with one of your emojis, but this post isn't really for you, but other contributors to this thread.

I was making a point , no need to get all defensive most people know that the lib dems have nothing else worthwhile to offer that's why Clegg lost his seat and their votes went down the pan? a party of day dreamers detached from reality
regards
DR

 

[pb21]

If I have £1,000,010 and pay someone £10 I have £1,000,000.

If I have £950,000 pounds and pay no one nothing, I have £950,000.

Use you noggin.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

If I have £1,000,010 and pay someone £10 I have £1,000,000.

If I have £950,000 pounds andpay no one nothing, I have £950,000.

Use you noggin.

I've used my noggin. A double negative means I've paid someone something.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

We don't have to pay the EU a penny

So the MEPs and admin workers from Britain won't get any pensions because we refuse to contribute our share. Oh well, it will cost us more in the long run looking after them in their old age.

I was making a point , no need to get all defensive most people know that the lib dems have nothing else worthwhile to offer that's why Clegg lost his seat and their votes went down the pan? a party of day dreamers detached from reality

Defensive No, just posting facts and figures.

Labour lost seats, the Tories are losing seats all over the place and Brexit still can't get a seat. Farage has tried seven times and been beaten by a dolphin.