[Politics] Brexit

[Nobby]

Most people who voted Leave did so in the firm expectation that the economy would take a hit in the short term. It was clear that they were prepared to put up with this, to get the end result they wanted. It was obvious to most that it would be bloody and quite painful, after an association lasting 40 years. The financial markets are generally built around confidence and a clear way forward. For the last three years there has been too much negativity and this had clearly had a detrimental effect on the economy and leaves us in the recessive state we are now in. Spending levels are low, confidence is low and businesses are suffering. I don't blame Remainers. They are fighting their cause with a passion and a conviction that it is better to stay in the EU.
Although it is a simplistic view, it does appear that the Leave/Remain voters generally fall into one of two categories. Either, those that are more tolerant of anticipated economic hardship or those that are not.
( If you consider yourself worse off as an individual spare a thought for many of the 4.5-5 million SME's, the lifeblood of this country, who are now having to contribute to compulsory workplace pensions, on top of NI contributions and corporation tax, as well as many other hidden costs that our bureaucratic brothers like to foist on us. Believe you me, life is considerably tougher as an employer at the moment, than as an individual )

Indeed - especially if you have no idea where your markets will be in the next few months

 

[Mo Gosfield]

So you're saying benefit claimants, living on small, fixed incomes, who voted leave were prepared to put up with a further painful and bloody hit to their finances?

I'm sure some, who were totally committed to leaving, were prepared for this, knowing everyone else was, as well.
Our nation has become considerably more self-interested and self-centred in recent years. Many on this thread haven't lived through semi permanent strikes, civil unrest, three day working weeks, severe deprivation, bodies not being buried, rubbish 20 feet high in the streets, daily power cuts, 15% interest rates, 3-4 million unemployed etc. Life has been pretty comfortable in the last few years and so any change to lifestyle is greeted with faux outrage.
Its understandable. People have become more more selfish and only see things through their own personal circumstances.

 

[One Love]

Globalization is the natural, inevitable, and even desirable process by which humanity matures as a species, shifting from the competitive, acquisitive mode of a juvenile species to the cooperative, sharing mode of a mature species.

52% of the population chose sovereignty.

Staying at juveniles it is then.

 

[WATFORD zero]

I'm sure some, who were totally committed to leaving, were prepared for this, knowing everyone else was, as well.
Our nation has become considerably more self-interested and self-centred in recent years. Many on this thread haven't lived through semi permanent strikes, civil unrest, three day working weeks, severe deprivation, bodies not being buried, rubbish 20 feet high in the streets, daily power cuts, 15% interest rates, 3-4 million unemployed etc. Life has been pretty comfortable in the last few years and so any change to lifestyle is greeted with faux outrage.
Its understandable. People have become more more selfish and only see things through their own personal circumstances.

Well obviously not everyone follows your completely selfless act of knowingly voting to make the poor poorer

 

[CHAPPERS]

I'm sure some, who were totally committed to leaving, were prepared for this, knowing everyone else was, as well.
.

Leaving how?

 

[Nobby]

I fully understand why you elevate your personal finances above why many leavers chose to vote in the way they did .I dont blame you for putting your wallet first over the pros and cons of being in the EU. Many remainers were the same.
And you are fully entitled to not care if those that are accountable to us are either from Brussels or Westminster. There are however quite a number of leavers that do care. It has in fact been the major sticking point for decades, even amongst parliament itself.

It’s not really my wallet - it’s the wallets of my kids and grandkids I’m worried about I suppose.
And of course I understand that some leavers really care. That’s why there is a debate.
But the major sticking point in Parliament was always really just about the Tory party.
I honestly don’t believe that many in this country gave a damn about Europe \ EU before all this started.
Anyway vote was held and result has been in for a while.
As DR says, judgement day may well be upon us (although I think that’s a bit dramatic). Shame it’s the likes of DR who will be worse off financially because of it all.

 

[Nobby]

I'm sure some, who were totally committed to leaving, were prepared for this, knowing everyone else was, as well.
Our nation has become considerably more self-interested and self-centred in recent years. Many on this thread haven't lived through semi permanent strikes, civil unrest, three day working weeks, severe deprivation, bodies not being buried, rubbish 20 feet high in the streets, daily power cuts, 15% interest rates, 3-4 million unemployed etc. Life has been pretty comfortable in the last few years and so any change to lifestyle is greeted with faux outrage.
Its understandable. People have become more more selfish and only see things through their own personal circumstances.

Yep I do too. I don’t really want all that back though thanks

 

[ManOfSussex]

I'm sure some, who were totally committed to leaving, were prepared for this, knowing everyone else was, as well.
Our nation has become considerably more self-interested and self-centred in recent years. Many on this thread haven't lived through semi permanent strikes, civil unrest, three day working weeks, severe deprivation, bodies not being buried, rubbish 20 feet high in the streets, daily power cuts, 15% interest rates, 3-4 million unemployed etc. Life has been pretty comfortable in the last few years and so any change to lifestyle is greeted with faux outrage.
Its understandable. People have become more more selfish and only see things through their own personal circumstances.

I'm sure nobody struggling on benefits on less than £100 a week was - and I come from somewhere that voted leave with high levels of benefit dependency. I get the distinct impression I know of more people living on benefits and low fixed incomes than you do too. This comes back to the £350m a week thing as well - it wasn't aimed at people like you who can afford to take the hit and it's inference was critical in the campaign for those it was.

I understand your second point entirely because it's just classic Brexiteer nostalgia - a good bit of suffering like we had in the good old days - a recession/depression/war - that's what we need in this country. Roll our sleeves up and invoke the Blitz spirit and go back to how things used to be. The problem is you think people are going to put up with it in the 21st Century.

 

[Mo Gosfield]

Indeed - especially if you have no idea where your markets will be in the next few months

My market place is domestic, like 80% of the SME's in this country. I have suffered price rises for 20 years on packaging, on raw materials and other costs, particularly imports in the last three years. I am used to internal market fluctuations. I am used to the government finding ever more ways to wring money out of you. I have suffered local councils being positively obstructive rather than constructive in helping local businesses. We have to pay privately for waste disposal despite paying a fortune on business rates. My business distributes and we get no relief on fuel duty. I could go on for hours about the lack of help that business gets in this country. I don't because I haven't got the time. Like over 4m other small businesses in this country, we get on with our lot, trying to wealth create to re-invest and employ people.
Its not inward looking, its just what we are. We are used to getting over problems.

 

[Mo Gosfield]

Well obviously not everyone follows your completely selfless act of knowingly voting to make the poor poorer

Well not everyone shares your crystal ball of the future and how do you know how I voted?
Just because I am not leaping onto the doom and gloom bandwagon every millisecond on here doesn't mean that I don't sympathise with the Remain cause. I am probably one of the few that can actually see both sides of the argument and logically balance them out, rather than launch into a rabid attack on anyone with a modicum of difference in atttitude.

 

[WATFORD zero]

My market place is domestic, like 80% of the SME's in this country. I have suffered price rises for 20 years on packaging, on raw materials and other costs, particularly imports in the last three years. I am used to internal market fluctuations. I am used to the government finding ever more ways to wring money out of you. I have suffered local councils being positively obstructive rather than constructive in helping local businesses. We have to pay privately for waste disposal despite paying a fortune on business rates. My business distributes and we get no relief on fuel duty. I could go on for hours about the lack of help that business gets in this country. I don't because I haven't got the time. Like over 4m other small businesses in this country, we get on with our lot, trying to wealth create to re-invest and employ people.
Its not inward looking, its just what we are. We are used to getting over problems.

You keep on telling us about the SME you run, but what the f*** has any of that to do with Brexit ?

Many on this thread haven't lived through semi permanent strikes, civil unrest, three day working weeks, severe deprivation, bodies not being buried, rubbish 20 feet high in the streets, daily power cuts, 15% interest rates, 3-4 million unemployed etc. Life has been pretty comfortable in the last few years and so any change to lifestyle is greeted with faux outrage.

I lived though that as well and again (unless you are suggesting we go back to it) what the f*** has any of that to do with Brexit ?

You really are all over the place. Have you been drinking ?

 

[WATFORD zero]

Well not everyone shares your crystal ball of the future and how do you know how I voted?

I can't imagine

...and did any of the Remain campaigners even contemplate what would happen when the EU collapses, which every student of history knows is inevitable.

...and had Remain won the vote, the vast majority of Leave voters would have shrugged their shoulders, accepted the result, got on with their lives and waited patiently for the day when the EU inevitably crashes and burns.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

You keep on telling us about the SME you run, but what the f*** has any of that to do with Brexit ?



I lived though that as well and again (unless you are suggesting we go back to it) what the f*** has any of that to do with Brexit ?

You really are all over the place. Have you been drinking ?

Calm down petal , the reality is dawning on you that the vote to leave will be implemented as instructed by the electorate in the 2016 referendum
regards
DR

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Well obviously not everyone follows your completely selfless act of knowingly voting to make the poor poorer

You didn't read his post did you , you just went into auto pilot Doomsayer
regards
DR

 

[Mo Gosfield]

I'm sure nobody struggling on benefits on less than £100 a week was - and I come from somewhere that voted leave with high levels of benefit dependency. I get the distinct impression I know of more people living on benefits and low fixed incomes than you do too. This comes back to the £350m a week thing as well - it wasn't aimed at people like you who can afford to take the hit and it's inference was critical in the campaign for those it was.

I understand your second point entirely because it's just classic Brexiteer nostalgia - a good bit of suffering like we had in the good old days - a recession/depression/war - that's what we need in this country. Roll our sleeves up and invoke the Blitz spirit and go back to how things used to be. The problem is you think people are going to put up with it in the 21st Century.

How the f--cking hell do you know that I can afford to take ' the hit ' You know nothing about me. Just because I run my own business do you think I am swilling in money? Would you even stop to consider that some business people are in serious debt? My business runs on a knife-edge sometimes, desperately waiting for people to pay. I have gone 9-10 months without paying myself at times, to ensure that at everything else gets paid. Thats what a responsible business owner does. He or she takes ' the hit ' unlike those guaranteed a regular monthly income.
How do you know that I don't help those less fortunate in my local community? How do you know how I voted? Oh, yes, you presumed.....as many others do on this thread, blindly obsessive to their own interests, that just because I am not on here throwing bile and venom at anyone who has the temerity to suggest that Leaving might be worthy of consideration, that I am in sympathy with them and are therefore a Brexiteer. It is the fall back of the one-eyed and intolerant.

 

[Mo Gosfield]

I can't imagine

I can. Try studying history.

 

[Lever]

Calm down petal , the reality is dawning on you that the vote to leave will be implemented as instructed by the electorate in the 2016 referendum
regards
DR

... and if that happens it will save the Tory Party and smash the Union.
Glad you are back on spell check.

 

[Mo Gosfield]

You keep on telling us about the SME you run, but what the f*** has any of that to do with Brexit ?



I lived though that as well and again (unless you are suggesting we go back to it) what the f*** has any of that to do with Brexit ?

You really are all over the place. Have you been drinking ?

No....just not trying to be as smug and clever as you.
Well if you don't want to hear a view of a business owner on here thats up to you. They are connected, of course they are. Business is inextricably linked to Brexit. You clearly have a one way ticket to the ' we are all going to be poorer, end of ' terminus and have no plans to stop off at any station on the way to consider whether there might be the slightest glimmer of hope or whether we are all doomed for eternity.

 

[ManOfSussex]

How the f--cking hell do you know that I can afford to take ' the hit ' You know nothing about me. Just because I run my own business do you think I am swilling in money? Would you even stop to consider that some business people are in serious debt? My business runs on a knife-edge sometimes, desperately waiting for people to pay. I have gone 9-10 months without paying myself at times, to ensure that at everything else gets paid. Thats what a responsible business owner does. He or she takes ' the hit ' unlike those guaranteed a regular monthly income.
How do you know that I don't help those less fortunate in my local community? How do you know how I voted? Oh, yes, you presumed.....as many others do on this thread, blindly obsessive to their own interests, that just because I am not on here throwing bile and venom at anyone who has the temerity to suggest that Leaving might be worthy of consideration, that I am in sympathy with them and are therefore a Brexiteer. It is the fall back of the one-eyed and intolerant.

As I've got a degree in Business Studies - yes, I would stop to consider that some business people are in serious debt, as I would people on benefits are as well coming from where I do - and that is a seriously tragic circumstance to be in caused by debt.

This all came about though from your assertion that some benefit claimants, on pitiful fixed incomes, reliant on foodbanks, couple with the misery of personal debt et al were prepared to take a further painful and bloody hit to their financial and personal circumstances to achieve the wonders of Brexit as envisioned by a bunch of Public School Toffs who'd order a bottle of white wine for lunch as an aperitif that costs the same as some peoples food budget for a week. If I made an assumption, it was primarily based on your naivety there and your nostalgia for the wonders of the 1970's and the 1980's - the decades I was born and grew up in. I can only wholeheartedly apologise.

(Thanks for regaling your travails on running an SME again - it reminds of the owner of the business owner of the shop in Bexhill I did my case study coursework at 6th Form College - I managed to feign interest with him on that though.)

 

[Wardy's twin]

No need to answer it
You really should have argued your case for remaining in the EU better before the vote occurred.
Makes no sense you wanting to still argue now whether we should decide to leave or decide to remain in the EU, after the decision to Leave has already been given by a vote and when the polling booths for the 2016 referendum are no longer open.

Of course there is no need to answer it if you don't have the answer. Too many people got caught up in the rhetoric of the Leave campaign which had no substance and are afraid to say they don't know why they are leaving but we should.