[Politics] Brexit

[Lever]

Of course there is no need to answer it if you don't have the answer. Too many people got caught up in the rhetoric of the Leave campaign which had no substance and are afraid to say they don't know why they are leaving but we should.

But the point is, like it or not, they have what the hard Brexiteers were always after - and they will not let go. The meaning and purpose of 'democracy' is subordinate and bends to that outcome.....

 

[WATFORD zero]

No....just not trying to be as smug and clever as you.
Well if you don't want to hear a view of a business owner on here thats up to you. They are connected, of course they are. Business is inextricably linked to Brexit. You clearly have a one way ticket to the ' we are all going to be poorer, end of ' terminus and have no plans to stop off at any station on the way to consider whether there might be the slightest glimmer of hope or whether we are all doomed for eternity.

I do understand the view of a business owner as I have owned and run a number of SMEs for years. I also made the decision to give up a regular monthly income to have more control over what I was doing and took on all the pressure that goes with running companies, employing staff and not necessarily having a regular income (and then kept doing it). But it was my decision and I'm happy with it.

That is why I am fully aware of what the current state of Brexit is doing to SMEs who, unlike you, do trade overseas (you obviously ignored my statement about sales lead times). I also have a view on the impact of Brexit, if it ever happens (and even worse, a 'no deal' Brexit) on the vast majority of SMEs, both those that trade purely domestically and those who trade overseas.

But the statement about how you operate your business and the issues and stresses are equally true whether for the vast majority of SMEs at some point, whether we were staying in the EU or leaving, so I didn't see what the point of it was. I do understand that it's hard work and stressful running a business, but that has nothing to do with Brexit.

Now as you have clearly stated, you believe that the financial hit of Brexit is worth it in your mind for yourself personally and your business. I am simply pointing out that you are in a minority amongst SME owners and bodies who represent SMEs, and that the poor will not be able to make that same sacrifice, that you believe is so worthwhile

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I'm sure some, who were totally committed to leaving, were prepared for this, knowing everyone else was, as well.
Our nation has become considerably more self-interested and self-centred in recent years. Many on this thread haven't lived through semi permanent strikes, civil unrest, three day working weeks, severe deprivation, bodies not being buried, rubbish 20 feet high in the streets, daily power cuts, 15% interest rates, 3-4 million unemployed etc. Life has been pretty comfortable in the last few years and so any change to lifestyle is greeted with faux outrage.
Its understandable. People have become more more selfish and only see things through their own personal circumstances.

I have and joining the EU made life a lot better.

Faux outrage? I would rather be part of the EU especially with the employment rights gained from being part of it, than the 51st state of the USA, which is where this is heading.

 

[Simster]

It is interesting that all the vile right wing Brexit-tubthumping rags haven't seen fit to report this:

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-well-block-uk-trade-deal-us-politicians-warn

https://www.irishcentral.com/news/politics/pelosi-warns-brexit-british-trade-deal



Seriously, it irritates me that this sort of thing is suppressed just because it doesn't suit their narrative. They are the first to bleat about freedom of press, but as far as I'm concerned freedom of press comes with responsibility and I think they have a duty to report ALL news, not just the news they want people to read.

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

Having done my best to follow the debates on the thread, I'm still (genuinely) not sure where the Brexiteers (other the ppf) stand on the issue of 'no deal'. As we are fast approaching crunch time this is something that we as a country and individually need to front-up.
I get the impression (perhaps wrongly) that most would accept a no deal. But are there any that would simply say no to no-deal?

 

[JC Footy Genius]

It is interesting that all the vile right wing Brexit-tubthumping rags haven't seen fit to report this:

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-well-block-uk-trade-deal-us-politicians-warn

https://www.irishcentral.com/news/politics/pelosi-warns-brexit-british-trade-deal



Seriously, it irritates me that this sort of thing is suppressed just because it doesn't suit their narrative. They are the first to bleat about freedom of press, but as far as I'm concerned freedom of press comes with responsibility and I think they have a duty to report ALL news, not just the news they want people to read.

Suppressed? ....


https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1...hdrawal-Congress-Donald-Trump-election-latest

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-impossible-Brexit-threatens-Irish-peace.html

 

[Thunder Bolt]

[tweet]1156167162626826240[/tweet]

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Having done my best to follow the debates on the thread, I'm still (genuinely) not sure where the Brexiteers (other the ppf) stand on the issue of 'no deal'. As we are fast approaching crunch time this is something that we as a country and individually need to front-up.
I get the impression (perhaps wrongly) that most would accept a no deal. But are there any that would simply say no to no-deal?

We know where Ernest stands too ...

I don't want a deal, I want out and completely out. If that doesn't happen then forget it

I am certain most Brexiteers (including me) want a deal, even at this late stage but not any old deal and certainly not one the one that includes tying us inside the customs union indefinitely without an exit date. If no deal happens it is because the EU (Eire) insists a deal that has been rejected by the United Kingdom parliament on numerous occasions and by a record margin, cannot be changed. If avoiding no deal and increased tensions in NI is so important to the Irish I have no idea why they couldn't agree to a temporary backstop (say 2 years) where our future trade relationship would be partially negotiated /much clearer with the possibility to extend the agreement at any time to continue trade negotiations but also have the ability, with a set amount of notice ( say 6 months) to end the process (very unlikely). Pretty sure this would have got through the HoC and still would.

Btw if the reverse had happened and the European parliament had rejected the deal numerous times with a record majority against, I doubt many remainers on this thread would be saying it's ok for the UK government to ignore them and stick to a position of rejected deal or no deal. On the question of fronting up I take it you would be prepared to accept any deal, no matter how bad, rather than no deal.

 

[CHAPPERS]

I am certain most Brexiteers (including me) want a deal, even at this late stage but not any old deal and certainly not one the one that includes tying us inside the customs union indefinitely without an exit date.

But I keep reading that technology exists that can solve this backstop thing? Certainly half the current cabinet seem to think so. Maybe they should reveal all so we can leave quick snap.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

But I keep reading that technology exists that can solve this backstop thing? Certainly half the current cabinet seem to think so. Maybe they should reveal all so we can leave quick snap.

Well the EU certainly think alternative solutions are possible but the point about kicking this can down the road is the more comprehensive the trade deal .. the less new technology we will need.

 

[Gwylan]

I am certain most Brexiteers (including me) want a deal, even at this late stage but not any old deal and certainly not one the one that includes tying us inside the customs union indefinitely without an exit date.

On the other hand, I'd be very happy with a deal that kept us within the customs union indefinitely. That's part of the trouble, Brexiteers can't agree on what they want

 

[Thunder Bolt]

On the other hand, I'd be very happy with a deal that kept us within the customs union indefinitely. That's part of the trouble, Brexiteers can't agree on what they want

They are starting to turn on each other.

[tweet]1156508816357363712[/tweet]

 

[vegster]

They are starting to turn on each other.

[tweet]1156508816357363712[/tweet]

Farage started work on Boris last week saying that Johnson " cannot be trusted to deliver Brexit ".... A nice double whammy for our Nige, it puts more pressure on Johnson to deliver and highlights that Farage heads a voting group that will split votes from the Tories in a GE. It also helps keep the Brexit Party membership fees rolling in.... Kerching!

 

[CHAPPERS]

Nigel fundraising again

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-risk-of-dark-money-from-farage-led-lobbyists

Farage, leader of the Brexit party, hosted a launch for the new group, called World4Brexit, or W4B, in New York last week, alongside American political figures who support Donald Trump.

The W4B website, which has a page soliciting donations of between $100 and $1,000, says the group was formed “by friends of the UK from around the world who welcome it back to the international community free of the EU”.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I'm sure nobody struggling on benefits on less than £100 a week was - and I come from somewhere that voted leave with high levels of benefit dependency. I get the distinct impression I know of more people living on benefits and low fixed incomes than you do too. This comes back to the £350m a week thing as well - it wasn't aimed at people like you who can afford to take the hit and it's inference was critical in the campaign for those it was.

I understand your second point entirely because it's just classic Brexiteer nostalgia - a good bit of suffering like we had in the good old days - a recession/depression/war - that's what we need in this country. Roll our sleeves up and invoke the Blitz spirit and go back to how things used to be. The problem is you think people are going to put up with it in the 21st Century.

You're wrong then. At the time I voted leave I was on benefits of £73 a week.

 

[Blue3]

I recall a photo not long ago doing the rounds the photo was Boris and Nigel sitting down to a nice meal together at some swank you restaurant in London they are all in it thick as thieves

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Vote Leave said we were going to get a great deal.

[tweet]1156278900797902848[/tweet]

 

[ManOfSussex]

You're wrong then. At the time I voted leave I was on benefits of £73 a week.

How long were you on JSA (Assuming it was and ESA) for in 2016? I assume you were you on Housing Benefit too?

 

[Lincoln Imp]

If there is another vote and remain win, then under the current rules (made by remoaners) that remain referendum decision can be ignored and we can Leave instead.

Double standards! If, as you claim, current rules mean that we should ignore a referendum decision then under such rules it would be correct to ignore the next referendum result whatever it is. We would have to default all the way back to 22 June 2016. Seems fair.


PS We disagree for sure but I don't know how the turmoil, division and colossal expense of the past three years can be defined as 'ignoring'.

 

[Mellotron]

Farage started work on Boris last week saying that Johnson " cannot be trusted to deliver Brexit ".... A nice double whammy for our Nige, it puts more pressure on Johnson to deliver and highlights that Farage heads a voting group that will split votes from the Tories in a GE. It also helps keep the Brexit Party membership fees rolling in.... Kerching!

Quite. Farage is desperate to keep the Brexit Party relevant.