[Politics] Brexit

[Mo Gosfield]

[tweet]1113547733300842497[/tweet]

Thread is well worth a read

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The ' CRIMINABLES ' would love that.

 

[TSB]

The biggest lies came from the remain side with project fear.

Leave campaign had all their arguments grilled over in the media and we still voted LEAVE.

It seems to me that this is one subject that people feel in their hearts as being the right thing. Very few people have changed their minds. Most remain voters have accepted the result of the 1st referendum.

A second referendum wouldn't be democratic because people would not turn out to vote in protest at being ignored.

I have voted consistently in every election, my mother was keen to get across how important it was to exercise my democratic right, after all women had died so I could put my X in the box.

A second referendum would be my first abstention...[/QUOTE]

Good.

 

[peterward]

Speaking of UKIP, I see Neil Hamilton is now clear 2nd favourite ahead of the Tories for the Newport West by-election today.

That should terrify Tory HQ.... UKIP were always a bunch of oddballs, now some of the more serious players have jumped ship, it's just crackpots and rascists left..... Hamilton being the biggest loon

 

[Pavilionaire]

Here we go.... Those who voted leave didn't know what they were voting for? It's so condescending.

If you followed all the political debate at the time, the government and senior Labour figures pre vote said if we vote to leave that we would leave the EU, the customs union, the single market. That the referendum was either once in a lifetime of once in a generation etc. The Ballot paper conferred that with do you wish to "leave the European Union"
Then parliament voted to trigger article 50 of the Lisbon treaty, an EU treaty law, that clearly shows the process of leaving EU, is a 2 year window ending with full leaving of all EU institutions and the EU political union. And that is it, the rest is added later, That was the facts of process known before the vote....... after the vote parliament overwhelmingly voted to trigger that process by triggering article 50.

Of course leaving for some was about singular issues like immigration etc, but it's simplistic in the extreme to suggest that all leave voters voted on a simplistic notion or single issue. I wouldn't suggest remainers are I'll informed or don't know what the vote on, they simply have fundamental difference of opinion of long term outlook for the UK.
fwiw leaving on most favourable terms is of course most preferable, but "a deal" is not part of that legal article 50 process. The process was clear as were political declarations from both major parties prior to the referendum. Could anyone of predicted where we are now? No, but that's hugely in part by an incompetent PM and remain MPs trying to circumvent leaving by any means.

I accept that there were a significant proportion of Leave voters that simply wanted to get out of the EU come what may. However, there were also a significant amount of voters that were persuaded to vote Leave by campaigners who said negotiating a trade deal with the EU would be easy and that the EU couldn't manage without us - the 'cake and eat it' stuff.

Now that those last two points have been thoroughly debunked some Leavers feel deceived. Therefore, any suggestion that all Leave voters knew what they were voting for is pure baloney.

 

[ManOfSussex]

That should terrify Tory HQ.... UKIP were always a bunch of oddballs, now some of the more serious players have jumped ship, it's just crackpots and rascists left..... Hamilton being the biggest loon

Turnout will be pitifully low today though, there's 11 candidates standing for those that do vote to split things and there'll be a high number of spoilt ballot papers too.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Who shared the stage with Farage last Friday.

Which if nothing else means I know I voted correctly and have no guilt associated with my decision.

They were in the same area, but not on the same stage.

 

[Two Professors]

Who shared the stage with Farage last Friday.

Which if nothing else means I know I voted correctly and have no guilt associated with my decision.

Saw this article and thought of you straightaway.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Saw this article and thought of you straightaway.

Stat Brother is in Madrid?

 

[A1X]

[TWEET]1113752361938370561[/TWEET]

 

[Two Professors]

Your info graphic, if you look at the raw data (this means numbers not pretty bar charts, difficult I know) was taken from the survey that I linked to. Which you obviously didn't read properly. This, combined with your view that No Deal is a good outcome for The UK, has pegged you as being too thick to bother engaging in conversation with.

And you know what that means.........

View attachment 107110

Know the company that you are now keeping.

Nice to know you are well enough to get your phone card for the month.Cats still keeping your windows clean?

 

[Two Professors]

Stat Brother is in Madrid?

Couldn't care less about his location.He's as full of faeces as the dope is.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Here we go.... Those who voted leave didn't know what they were voting for? It's so condescending.

If you followed all the political debate at the time, the government and senior Labour figures pre vote said if we vote to leave that we would leave the EU, the customs union, the single market. That the referendum was either once in a lifetime of once in a generation etc. The Ballot paper conferred that with do you wish to "leave the European Union"
Then parliament voted to trigger article 50 of the Lisbon treaty, an EU treaty law, that clearly shows the process of leaving EU, is a 2 year window ending with full leaving of all EU institutions and the EU political union. And that is it, the rest is added later, That was the facts of process known before the vote....... after the vote parliament overwhelmingly voted to trigger that process by triggering article 50.

Of course leaving for some was about singular issues like immigration etc, but it's simplistic in the extreme to suggest that all leave voters voted on a simplistic notion or single issue. I wouldn't suggest remainers are I'll informed or don't know what the vote on, they simply have fundamental difference of opinion of long term outlook for the UK.
fwiw leaving on most favourable terms is of course most preferable, but "a deal" is not part of that legal article 50 process. The process was clear as were political declarations from both major parties prior to the referendum. Could anyone of predicted where we are now? No, but that's hugely in part by an incompetent PM and remain MPs trying to circumvent leaving by any means.

Here is a poll from June 2016 where the decisions are divided up between leavers and remainers. Leavers thought it would be fairly unlikely that leaving would include the Single Market.

[tweet]1113726439025778693[/tweet]

 

[Two Professors]

Congratulations. Here's what you've won.

[TWEET]1113741351454236673[/TWEET]

And?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Couldn't care less about his location.He's as full of faeces as the dope is.

Nice.

 

[Stat Brother]

Stat Brother is in Madrid?

TBH I'd take 'stat brother is stoned'.





Gosh those were the days...





...probably.

 

[A1X]

And?

I guess empathy isn't for everyone.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

12 April 2016

Out of interest I went to the start of the thread to see if I could find anyone, one of the relentless pro-Brexit campaigners, explaining coherently why they wanted to leave. I wanted to see whether the reasons 'feel' like all this nightmare has been worth it, and whether they had any idea of a plan. After several pages, what I paste below is the best I could find. To think that we had an in-out referendum to resolve 'issues' such as this.

"Out for a few reasons.

I have more belief in this country and it's people's ability to thrive as a more independent nation just like the vast majority of other countries in the world, than those who are happy to defer to an EU overlord.

Prefer to have the chance to vote out the people who make the policies and laws that effect this country.

I would rather this country retain some sort of unique British identity rather than be subsumed into a multicultural mish mash.

Cooperation and partnership with our friends in Europe does not have to be conducted through an ever expanding all encompassing political project which is causing instability across Europe.

I welcome controlled immigration but we haven't got it. Immigration is too high over 50% of the public think this is a concern only by voting out do we regain the power to stem the flow.

I would rather the insufficient housing stock and any future builds be prioritised for UK citizens. Same goes for jobs.

This is a once in a lifetime chance they won't let us near real power ever again, far to risky, so think long term ... an inevitable drive to a Superstate including Turkey. There's another 70 million potential new UK citizens. Probably be bullied into having the Euro using the same doomsday arguments by the same vested interests at some point.

We can better spend the £13 Billion we sent to Brussels last year on projects like the NHS or revitalising a UK steel industry.

For those who are more anti establishment/ big business minded perhaps ask why the UK/European elites combined with big business all want us to stay in and threaten numerous doomsday scenarios if we dare think differently.

This will be the only chance we will ever get to exercise true direct power over the future of this country it would be a shame to do as we're told. "

Awww I'm flattered. Does this mean you are going to finally give up the silly pretence that you aren't reading my posts?

Consulting the public about our future relationship with Europe and getting a specific democratic mandate for a chosen path was long over due especially considering the changes that have occurred since we joined the EC. One of the flaws undermining the whole EU project is the political class driving forward their ever closer union agenda leaving the public behind. Continue on that course and it will all end it tears.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Can't stand the bloke. He keeps trying to stir up trouble for our friends in Brussels. He should leave them alone to get on with their work, sorting out their accounts for the last 20 years. I need a good laugh.

Oh, indeed. Look at him here, stirring up trouble with he evil J-C Junker. Look how Junker QUAKES in fear, having had his cunning foreign snidey duplicity cruelly exposed by the saviour of the nation, Sir Nigel Farrage.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Laughter can already be heard coming from inside the Kremlin.

https://twitter.com/adamfleming/status/1113786414133649408?s=19

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

Awww I'm flattered. Does this mean you are going to finally give up the silly pretence that you aren't reading my posts?

Consulting the public about our future relationship with Europe and getting a specific democratic mandate for a chosen path was long over due especially considering the changes that have occurred since we joined the EC. One of the flaws undermining the whole EU project is the political class driving forward their ever closer union agenda leaving the public behind. Continue on that course and it will all end it tears.

As someone interested in the distribution of power in the country, I am perplexed by the references to 'the political class' and 'the pro-EU Establishment' and other such terms thrown around in the course of the Brexit debate.
So here's a challenge. assuming that the ERG is NOT part of the 'the political class' and the Establishment, can your good self or anybody tell me any demographic or social marker that disitnguishes them from non-ERG MPs who (therefore) are part of this 'class'? Is it that they didn't go to private school or enjoy the typical privileges of the others? Are they perhaps all from disadvantage regions? Or ddin't go to university?
My hypothesis would be that this group (the ERG)is if anything more privileged than non-ERG MPs. In which case the only distinguishing feature they have is that they are rabidly anti-EU. And in which case the argument appears to be a bit circular
i.e. the 'political class' is by definition those who are not rabidly anti-EU. (I'm not saying they are bad people - although there is always Mark Francois to consider - just trying to nail down this problematic concept of a discrete, identifiable and cohesive political class.*)

*PS if you simply want to amend to 'the political class excluding those members of that class with whom I agree', then it might be more accurate?