[Politics] Brexit

[ManOfSussex]

agree with the sentiment, though im very uncomfortable about someone in that position using language like that. its hardly diplomatic and serves as ammo for the leavers.

It was said in agreement with The Taoiseach of Ireland. As you've now got Michelle O'Neill of Sinn Fein re-tweeting Tusk's remarks and Sammy Wilson of The DUP calling Tusk 'devilish, trident wielding, euro maniac' and the fact those Tusk refers to are wanting to ride roughshod over the Good Friday Agreement, ammo might be an unfortunate word to use there.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

agree with the sentiment, though im very uncomfortable about someone in that position using language like that. its hardly diplomatic and serves as ammo for the leavers.

Needs some plain talking to shock these clowns in the Houses of Parliament to get their act together while there's still time to avoid a no-deal Brexit. European leaders must be as appalled as the rest of us by the petty point-scoring of our elected so-called leaders which is about as far as their planning for the future goes.

 

[seagulls4ever]

It's nothing that the ERG, DUP, and right wing press in this country haven't been doing to Dublin and The EU.

Ok, but that doesn't answer my question.

He started by saying "I know that still a very great number of people in the UK, and on the continent, as well as in Ireland, wish for a reversal of this decision. I have always been with you, with all my heart"

So he still wants us to remain. He then proceeds to make his "special place in hell" comments. If you want people to change their mind, you don't insult them. Such comments only serve to push people away, rather than to persuade them. It also further signals that he does not empathise with people who felt leaving the EU was better, and that their concerns are not valid.

Such remarks are not at all helpful, unless he actually does want us to leave with no deal.

I say this as someone who voted remain. I think it's exactly this kind of attitude which facilitated the vote to leave.

 

[Blackadder]

Hands up all the brexit voters who knew about that when they voted?

Most of them are pensioners. They don't care.

 

[Dave the OAP]

Ok, but that doesn't answer my question.

He started by saying "I know that still a very great number of people in the UK, and on the continent, as well as in Ireland, wish for a reversal of this decision. I have always been with you, with all my heart"

So he still wants us to remain. He then proceeds to make his "special place in hell" comments. If you want people to change their mind, you don't insult them. Such comments only serve to push people away, rather than to persuade them. It also further signals that he does not empathise with people who felt leaving the EU was better, and that their concerns are not valid.

Such remarks are not at all helpful, unless he actually does want us to leave with no deal.

I say this as someone who voted remain. I think it's exactly this kind of attitude which facilitated the vote to leave.

Yes but he isn't referring to the 17.5 million, he is referring to Johnson, farridge, and the honourable member for the 1820's

 

[pb21]

Ok, but that doesn't answer my question.

He started by saying "I know that still a very great number of people in the UK, and on the continent, as well as in Ireland, wish for a reversal of this decision. I have always been with you, with all my heart"

So he still wants us to remain. He then proceeds to make his "special place in hell" comments. If you want people to change their mind, you don't insult them. Such comments only serve to push people away, rather than to persuade them. It also further signals that he does not empathise with people who felt leaving the EU was better, and that their concerns are not valid.

Such remarks are not at all helpful, unless he actually does want us to leave with no deal.

I say this as someone who voted remain. I think it's exactly this kind of attitude which facilitated the vote to leave.

I agree that it wasn't very wise thing to say, but he has only insulted those people who promoted Brexit, without even a sketch of a plan how to carry it out safely, not all those who voted for it. Those who promoted it are very unlikely to change their mind!

 

[Blackadder]

Ok, but that doesn't answer my question.

He started by saying "I know that still a very great number of people in the UK, and on the continent, as well as in Ireland, wish for a reversal of this decision. I have always been with you, with all my heart"

So he still wants us to remain. He then proceeds to make his "special place in hell" comments. If you want people to change their mind, you don't insult them. Such comments only serve to push people away, rather than to persuade them. It also further signals that he does not empathise with people who felt leaving the EU was better, and that their concerns are not valid.

Such remarks are not at all helpful, unless he actually does want us to leave with no deal.

I say this as someone who voted remain. I think it's exactly this kind of attitude which facilitated the vote to leave.

If he wished everyone a Happy Valentine's day., the Mail and the Express would be OUTRAGED the following day.

 

[Blackadder]

Yes but he isn't referring to the 17.5 million, he is referring to Johnson, farridge, and the honourable member for the 1820's

Yep that's how most of us read it.

 

[beorhthelm]

Needs some plain talking to shock these clowns in the Houses of Parliament to get their act together while there's still time to avoid a no-deal Brexit. European leaders must be as appalled as the rest of us by the petty point-scoring of our elected so-called leaders which is about as far as their planning for the future goes.

plain talking is good, this goes bit further dont you think? its more of the same point scoring that seems to have replaced amicable politics.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Ok, but that doesn't answer my question.

He started by saying "I know that still a very great number of people in the UK, and on the continent, as well as in Ireland, wish for a reversal of this decision. I have always been with you, with all my heart"

So he still wants us to remain. He then proceeds to make his "special place in hell" comments. If you want people to change their mind, you don't insult them. Such comments only serve to push people away, rather than to persuade them. It also further signals that he does not empathise with people who felt leaving the EU was better, and that their concerns are not valid.

Such remarks are not at all helpful, unless he actually does want us to leave with no deal.

I say this as someone who voted remain. I think it's exactly this kind of attitude which facilitated the vote to leave.

Which he then followed up with: "But the facts are unmistakeable. At the moment the pro-Brexit stance of the UK prime minister, and the leader of the opposition, rules out this question. Today there is no political force, and no effective leadership, for remain. I say this without satisfaction, but you can’t argue with the facts."

The remarks though, said stood next to the Irish Taoiseach, are to do with no deal, Ireland and the Good Friday Agreement and showing solidarity with them. He also mentioned the backstop is not going to be altered and that it's all about holding the peace process together. We're the ones who formulated, agreed and signed up to the backstop, twice, before throwing our toys out the pram. We were heading for no deal and everything it entails there anyway before today's remarks.

I'll be interested what is said later in the week when Simon Coveney visits Washington to discuss the backstop too.

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

Ok, but that doesn't answer my question.

He started by saying "I know that still a very great number of people in the UK, and on the continent, as well as in Ireland, wish for a reversal of this decision. I have always been with you, with all my heart"

So he still wants us to remain. He then proceeds to make his "special place in hell" comments. If you want people to change their mind, you don't insult them. Such comments only serve to push people away, rather than to persuade them. It also further signals that he does not empathise with people who felt leaving the EU was better, and that their concerns are not valid.

Such remarks are not at all helpful, unless he actually does want us to leave with no deal.

I say this as someone who voted remain. I think it's exactly this kind of attitude which facilitated the vote to leave.

Have to agree with all of that.

His comments will unfortunately only harden people's attitudes.

If, and it's far too late now of course, the EU had been more flexible to Cameron when he pushed for changes to FOM, then Remain would have walked the referendum.

There's blame on both sides here.

 

[seagulls4ever]

Yes but he isn't referring to the 17.5 million, he is referring to Johnson, farridge, and the honourable member for the 1820's

I agree that it wasn't very wise thing to say, but he has only insulted those people who promoted Brexit, without even a sketch of a plan how to carry it out safely, not all those who voted for it. Those who promoted it are very unlikely to change their mind!

I know what he said, but it's pretty obviously going to be taken as an insult by many, not a select few. The media will frame it in such a way too. Search for 'tusk' on Twitter to see the reaction.

There's already been an overwhelmingly negative response from various different politicians to that statement.

Again, my question, how in any way is what he said helpful? No one is able to give me an answer. If he wants to get people on his side then it's really stupid. Just another display of arrogance from the man.

 

[seagulls4ever]

Have to agree with all of that.

His comments will unfortunately only harden people's attitudes.

If, and it's far too late now of course, the EU had been more flexible to Cameron when he pushed for changes to FOM, then Remain would have walked the referendum.

There's blame on both sides here.

Absolutely spot on.

 

[seagulls4ever]

Which he then followed up with: "But the facts are unmistakeable. At the moment the pro-Brexit stance of the UK prime minister, and the leader of the opposition, rules out this question. Today there is no political force, and no effective leadership, for remain. I say this without satisfaction, but you can’t argue with the facts."

The remarks though, said stood next to the Irish Taoiseach, are to do with no deal, Ireland and the Good Friday Agreement and showing solidarity with them. He also mentioned the backstop is not going to be altered and that it's all about holding the peace process together. We're the ones who formulated, agreed and signed up to the backstop, twice, before throwing our toys out the pram. We were heading for no deal and everything it entails there anyway before today's remarks.

I'll be interested what is said later in the week when Simon Coveney visits Washington to discuss the backstop too.

You still haven't answered the question. What exactly is the benefit to his remarks?

 

[Blackadder]

Regarding TM's pandering to the DUP. I am sick to death of the tail wagging the dog. It's been mentioned before, why doesn't she just say to them, "Back us or we will cut you adrift". They can have independence and remain in the EU. People forget the rest of Northern Ireland prefer TM's deall.

I know there are probably many reasons why she can't legally do this but it would be worth it to see their faces. Come to think of it I already know. I have never seen Arlene Foster smile.

They are like those small band of children at a kid's party. No matter what you do, they are never happy.

 

[Murray 17]

If, and it's far too late now of course, the EU had been more flexible to Cameron when he pushed for changes to FOM, then Remain would have walked the referendum.

Exactly what I've said all along. I voted 'Leave', but would have voted 'Remain' had FOM been restricted.

It just goes to show how inflexible the EU is, and how one decision 3 years ago would have most likely changed the way things are heading.

 

[A1X]

If, and it's far too late now of course, the EU had been more flexible to Cameron when he pushed for changes to FOM, then Remain would have walked the referendum.

The EU gave immense concessions to Cameron. But by the time he did it the tabloids smelled blood and would have denounced anything he came back with as terrible. If it'd been a deal which included "everyone gets a hand-job from Nigella Lawson" they have been complaining that it wasn't Scarlett Johansson. But the EU, as it has been since long before the referendum and remains to this day, is not going to rip up the four freedoms because one of the members (which COULD have imposed restrictions long ago, or at any point since, but actively chose not to) doesn't much care for one of them for whatever reason.

 

[ManOfSussex]

You still haven't answered the question. What exactly is the benefit to his remarks?

In The UK? None whatsoever. It was to do with the Irish peace process though, as I say. Leave voters will think it was all about them and a lot of them, particularly those arrogant politicians without a plan he was referring to, couldn't care less about that anyway. The Irish border is just an inconvenience to them.

I've heard far worse from the ERG, DUP and cabinet ministers, such the foreign secretary comparing to The EU to the Soviet Union, but lets all get insulted by this, eh?. We're English and the whole world revolves around us and Brexit.

 

[Blackadder]

Watching the BBC this morning, an economist confirmed that the country that would suffer the most from a No deal Brexit was Northern Ireland.

 

[Berty23]

Lol at people outraged at Tusk’s comments about those leading figures.

If you can tell me whose plan you support and why then I will agree he was out of order.

Please note: just walk away with no deal is not and never was a plan.