[Politics] Brexit

[Deleted member 22389]

I see Honda are the latest to say that no deal means they will be screwed and any change from current arrangements which cause delays will be a major issue. https://amp.ft.com/content/8f46b0d4-77b6-11e8-8e67-1e1a0846c475?__twitter_impression=true

A factory twice the size of the main Amazon distribution centre in America you say? Get building and stop moaning.

Or might they decide that access is more important and start moving?

Kicking a can down the street can only go on so long....will some red lines be erased?

Well if the EU respected our membership contributions over the years they would do a deal like other countries have outside the EU, a deal that's beneficial for both parties whilst respecting the vote of the people, but no they just want to make things as difficult as possible. Stop blaming the Leavers, Blame the EU and blame our politicians for not addressing people's concerns in the first place, we might not have been in this place that you hate right now.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Well if the EU respected our membership contributions over the years they would do a deal like other countries have outside the EU, a deal that's beneficial for both parties whilst respecting the vote of the people, but no they just want to make things as difficult as possible. Stop blaming the Leavers, Blame the EU and blame our politicians for not addressing people's concerns in the first place, we might not have been in this place that you hate right now.

We're the ones leaving The EU, not the other way round, Terri from Eastbourne has drawn her red lines - we're leaving the Customs Union, Single Market and jurisdiction of The ECJ and things like the horrors of Freedom of Movement end. Assuming she doesn't budge on any or all that, as she's a bloody difficult woman remember, the EU will do a deal with us like other countries have outside the EU, it's just not going to have anywhere near the same benefits for British industry as the current status quo. It shouldn't be long now though I'd have thought - Dr Liam Fox GP said it'd be the easiest trade deal in history, don't forget. Alternatively, despite there being no planning, contingency or infrastructure in place we can just walk away have a 'no deal' because it's still better than a bad deal apparently, despite the disruption that would cause and people such as The Foreign Affairs Select Committee referring to it as 'mutually assured damage.'

 

[The Merry Prankster]

Well if the EU respected our membership contributions over the years they would do a deal like other countries have outside the EU, a deal that's beneficial for both parties whilst respecting the vote of the people, but no they just want to make things as difficult as possible. Stop blaming the Leavers, Blame the EU and blame our politicians for not addressing people's concerns in the first place, we might not have been in this place that you hate right now.

I'm sorry but (even as a leaver) I can see that's rubbish. We will get the same deal as other countries that don't belong to the Customs Union or the Single Market nor abide by the ECJ and that deal a) won't be nearly as "good' as the current one b) will cost a lot of jobs c) will cost us economically. It will also hit the less well off disproportionately. Frankly I don't know why as leavers we continue to pretend that this is not the case. It may be short term, it may be medium term but its almost nailed on to happen. Its a neo-liberal organisation and as a Socialist I think we're well out of it but I don't like a lot of my fellow travellers.

 

[Berty23]

Well if the EU respected our membership contributions over the years they would do a deal like other countries have outside the EU, a deal that's beneficial for both parties whilst respecting the vote of the people, but no they just want to make things as difficult as possible. Stop blaming the Leavers, Blame the EU and blame our politicians for not addressing people's concerns in the first place, we might not have been in this place that you hate right now.

Haha. And this is what cake and eat it Brexit looks like.

We should get all the benefits of membership but not be members. We said this would happen and it was dismissed as project fear. If France has left would you have supported them greeting all benefits without being members? Or would you have said "sod them"

 

[Two Professors]

I see Honda are the latest to say that no deal means they will be screwed and any change from current arrangements which cause delays will be a major issue. https://amp.ft.com/content/8f46b0d4-77b6-11e8-8e67-1e1a0846c475?__twitter_impression=true

A factory twice the size of the main Amazon distribution centre in America you say? Get building and stop moaning.

Or might they decide that access is more important and start moving?

Kicking a can down the street can only go on so long....will some red lines be erased?

Where do you want to build this factory?Next to all the houses you wanted built on England's flood plains?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Surprised this hasn't been mentioned:- https://www.bloomberg.com/news/feat...w-pollsters-helped-hedge-funds-beat-the-crash

So everyone's favourite man of the people, in it for the betterment of the everyday Joe, may have been so duplicitous and helping his chums make a ton of money on the very night of his biggest glory. Tosser.

I really really hope this will stick. He needs to be charged and locked up.

https://twitter.com/JimMFelton/status/1011164506523947008

[tweet]1011164506523947008[/tweet]

[tweet]1011223799830851584[/tweet]

https://twitter.com/abarden/status/1011223799830851584

Anyone on Twitter read Carole Cadwalladr who writes for the Observer and Guardian, who had does loads of investigative journalism on the whole sorry mess.

He had access to private polling data, the legality of which is questionable, the very same data that was used to hedge against the fall in the pound that was forthcoming. Essentially then he lied - He said that the polling he had seen led him to admit defeat when the opposite was the (likely to be) case. Maybe this isn't the place for a debate on Nigel Farage, but boy has he hoodwinked a lot of people!

CAROLE CADWALLADR win the Orwell Prize 2018

https://www.orwellfoundation.com/journalist/carole-cadwalladr-2/

The Great Brexit Robbery (The Observer, 07/05/2018)
Robert Mercer: The big data billionaire waging war on the mainstream media (The Observer, 26/02/2017)
My fear and fury in the eye of the Russia-Leave storm (The Observer, 19/11/2017)

Keep up the great work, the liars need to be exposed!!!

Exactly. Farage conceded defeat part of the way through the election results, but then expressed 'shock', when Remain won.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Haha. And this is what cake and eat it Brexit looks like.

We should get all the benefits of membership but not be members. We said this would happen and it was dismissed as project fear. If France has left would you have supported them greeting all benefits without being members? Or would you have said "sod them"

These are the rules for importing and exporting for EU member and Non EU members. This guy drives across Europe every single day delivering.

https://twitter.com/donnyc1975/status/1011488421880135680

[tweet]1011488421880135680[/tweet]

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Immigration rules within the EU.

http://ec.europa.eu/immigration/who...-why-are-there-eu-rules-and-national-rules_en

Exceptions to EU-wide rules

EU-wide immigration rules generally apply in 25 out of the EU’s 28 countries. The following exceptions apply:

Denmark does not apply EU-wide rules which relate to immigration, visa and asylum policies.

Ireland and the United Kingdom choose, on a case-by-case basis, whether or not to adopt EU rules on immigration, visa and asylum policies.

For more information on migration policy in the EU, you can visit the Website of the Directorate General for Migration and Home Affairs of the European Commission.

What do Member States do

Each EU country alone decides:

The total number of migrants that can be admitted to the country to look for work;
All final decisions on migrant applications;
Rules on long-term visas – stays for periods longer than three months; and
Conditions to obtain residence and work permits when no EU-wide rules have been adopted.
Select a country from this map to find up-to-date information on each of the 28 EU countries regarding their national institutional framework, i.e. the competent authorities for immigration, key legal texts, policy plans and statistical studies.


I won't hold my breath waiting for an apology for being told I am a lying turd.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

These are the rules for importing and exporting for EU member and Non EU members. This guy drives across Europe every single day delivering.

https://twitter.com/donnyc1975/status/1011488421880135680

[tweet]1011488421880135680[/tweet]

Rather dubious statement about adding up to six days to transport times if they have to use a ferry. There's not one single ferry route between the European mainland and the UK that takes more than a handful of hours. I get there may be some delays but six days

It's also assuming what the new rules will be when nothing has actually been agreed yet.

 

[Gwylan]

I'm sorry but (even as a leaver) I can see that's rubbish. We will get the same deal as other countries that don't belong to the Customs Union or the Single Market nor abide by the ECJ and that deal a) won't be nearly as "good' as the current one b) will cost a lot of jobs c) will cost us economically. It will also hit the less well off disproportionately. Frankly I don't know why as leavers we continue to pretend that this is not the case. It may be short term, it may be medium term but its almost nailed on to happen. Its a neo-liberal organisation and as a Socialist I think we're well out of it but I don't like a lot of my fellow travellers.

Absolutely this. I'm a leaver too and this idea that the "EU is punishing us" is a load of old moody. What should have happened is that the UK government should have looked at how to withdraw from the EU with little fuss and liaised on areas of equal benefit. Instead, we've had a head-in-the-sand mentality and "let's blame the EU" philosophy.

We're the ones leaving, we're the ones who should have had an exit plan and a way to work in partnership the EU. But we don't: we have a team of incompetents, seemingly without a coherent thought in their collective heads

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Rather dubious statement about adding up to six days to transport times if they have to use a ferry. There's not one single ferry route between the European mainland and the UK that takes more than a handful of hours. I get there may be some delays but six days

It's also assuming what the new rules will be when nothing has actually been agreed yet.

This bloke delivers all over Europe which includes non EU countries like Norway and Switzerland. He is quoting what happens now. Are the British so arrogant, they think they can change the rules just for them. This is an experienced driver who knows what he is talking about. He was on LBC recently and demolished Rees-Mogg in a debate.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Rather dubious statement about adding up to six days to transport times if they have to use a ferry. There's not one single ferry route between the European mainland and the UK that takes more than a handful of hours. I get there may be some delays but six days

It's also assuming what the new rules will be when nothing has actually been agreed yet.

It's over exaggerated isn't it, like always. We can send people and cargo up to the ISS, but we can't sort out a streamlined system for goods crossing the channel once we leave.

 

[Gwylan]

This bloke delivers all over Europe which includes non EU countries like Norway and Switzerland. He is quoting what happens now.

Norway is in the single market and Switzerland is in the customs union. You can't compare what happens in those countries to what happens with an EU third country. A better comparison would be with Belarus.

I'm with Westdene on this: it will clearly take longer to cross borders but can't see it taking six days

 

[Berty23]

Wasn't that the photo of days taken from the FT piece and written by Honda?

Even so...

It appears remain voters were far more likely to know what Brexit meant with regards to the single market. This is interesting isn't it? It gets lost in the noise about "we knew what we were voting for" and then people quote remain leaders.

Just over a fifth of leave voters thought it likely we would lose access to single market. This has obviously been forgotten in the rhetoric.

https://twitter.com/stefwalter__/sta...34476706967552

 

[Thunder Bolt]

It's over exaggerated isn't it, like always. We can send people and cargo up to the ISS, but we can't sort out a streamlined system for goods crossing the channel once we leave.

How many lorries pass through Eurotunnel and Dover every hour? Each one will have to be checked by Customs for tariffs. This is exactly what the Just in Time debate is all about, from the car manufacturers.

https://www.ft.com/content/b6a382f2-787d-11e8-8e67-1e1a0846c475

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Wasn't that the photo of days taken from the FT piece and written by Honda?

Even so...

It appears remain voters were far more likely to know what Brexit meant with regards to the single market. This is interesting isn't it? It gets lost in the noise about "we knew what we were voting for" and then people quote remain leaders.

Just over a fifth of leave voters thought it likely we would lose access to single market. This has obviously been forgotten in the rhetoric.

https://twitter.com/stefwalter__/sta...34476706967552

Yes, it is, and also mentioned in the FT article, I linked in my previous post.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

https://twitter.com/donnyc1975/status/1010956230112800769

[tweet]1010956230112800769[/tweet]

 

[ManOfSussex]

Rather dubious statement about adding up to six days to transport times if they have to use a ferry. There's not one single ferry route between the European mainland and the UK that takes more than a handful of hours. I get there may be some delays but six days

It's also assuming what the new rules will be when nothing has actually been agreed yet.

Prior to Maastricht as an importer/exporter you put up to 3 days on any order going back or forth from the continent due to customs checks and clearance. There's four times the number of lorries and freight coming through The Port of Dover now than there was 25 years ago. Even on the Norwegian/Swedish border and Swiss/French, customs delays can take anywhere between 20 mins to 1 hour as they do at Dover on the just 3% of lorries that pass through that are non EU. If all 2.1 million lorries a years are checked, I'd say 6 days is possibly a tad optimistic. Still, obviously there'll be a special deal for us utilising magic solutions the technologically backward Swiss, French Swedish and Norwegians don't already use though perhaps.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

This bloke delivers all over Europe which includes non EU countries like Norway and Switzerland. He is quoting what happens now. Are the British so arrogant, they think they can change the rules just for them. This is an experienced driver who knows what he is talking about. He was on LBC recently and demolished Rees-Mogg in a debate.

I don't doubt he knows his stuff about delivering to non-EU members. I'm questioning how he adds 6 days because he needs to use a ferry to get goods to the UK not any other non-member. And equally how he comes to this figure when NOBODY knows the rules we will be working under.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Prior to Maastricht as an importer/exporter you put up to 3 days on any order going back or forth from the continent due to customs checks and clearance. There's four times the number of lorries and freight coming through The Port of Dover now than there was 25 years ago. Even on the Norwegian/Swedish border and Swiss/French, customs delays can take anywhere between 20 mins to 1 hour as they do at Dover on the just 3% of lorries that pass through that are non EU. If all 2.1 million lorries a years are checked, I'd say 6 days is possibly a tad optimistic. Still, obviously there'll be a special deal for us utilising magic solutions the technologically backward Swiss, French Swedish and Norwegians don't already use though perhaps.

Or maybe the load will be spread across other ports such as Harwich, Folkstone, Newhaven and Portsmouth ? You seem a little over obsessed with Dover.