[Politics] Brexit

[daveinprague]

And would you like to commit to agreeing that (if there was a second referendum and the vote was remain), that any future changes (joining Euro, loss of rebate, major treaties, etc.) would be put to a referendum too?

It seems as though the remainers are complaining about democracy and harp on about “Oh, it was only an advisory referendum” (but it was made clear that the will of the people would be implemented, so surely you’d agree that any future changes in our relationship should be decided by the will of the people and not just 650 MPs, many who want to get on the EU gravy-train.

Who elects the 650 MPs? Considering the lies put out, and the impact it could have on the country, what scares Brexiteers about a 2nd referendum?
Ive come to believe over the last few months its just a fear of losing after getting a result based on mostly bullshit. Sort of 'grab it and run' before they can change their minds.

 

[larus]

Who elects the 650 MPs? Considering the lies put out, and the impact it could have on the country, what scares Brexiteers about a 2nd referendum?
Ive come to believe over the last few months its just a fear of losing after getting a result based on mostly bullshit. Sort of 'grab it and run' before they can change their minds.

Like the BS of (as soon as we voted to leave, not when we left):

£30bln emergency budget.
Immediate recession.
House price crash.
Interest rate rises.
Increased unemployment.
£4300 pa worse off.

And, the masterpiece - Increased risk of world war.

Not scared of a second referendum. How about the best of 3?

And with regards to MPs, some are just plain f*cking THICK. I give you Diane Abbott, so no, on major decisions I can see the logic to referendums.

Your hypocrisy it astounding. You’re advocating another referendum, but then don’t want any more in the future. Typical remainer BS.

 

[daveinprague]

Like the BS of (as soon as we voted to leave, not when we left):

£30bln emergency budget.
Immediate recession.
House price crash.
Interest rate rises.
Increased unemployment.
£4300 pa worse off.

And, the masterpiece - Increased risk of world war.

Not scared of a second referendum. How about the best of 3?

And with regards to MPs, some are just plain f*cking THICK. I give you Diane Abbott, so no, on major decisions I can see the logic to referendums.

Your hypocrisy it astounding. You’re advocating another referendum, but then don’t want any more in the future. Typical remainer BS.

Yep. Youre scared as well. All Brexiteers are. If you were not, a 2nd referendum wouldnt bother you. If you check my recent posts on the matter, you would see I said lies from both sides.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Like the BS of (as soon as we voted to leave, not when we left):

£30bln emergency budget.
Immediate recession.
House price crash.
Interest rate rises.
Increased unemployment.
£4300 pa worse off.

Were those claims based on David Cameron invoking Article 50 as soon as we voted to leave as he said he would, or not?

And, the masterpiece - Increased risk of world war.

I recall the sensationalised tabloid headlines in regards to World War, but Cameron actually said "Can we be so sure that peace and stability on our continent are assured beyond any shadow of doubt? Is that a risk worth taking? I would never be so rash as to make that assumption.”

Irrespective of Vote Leave never mentioning Northern Ireland or Dover/Cheriton as being problems, or EU staff leaving The NHS, or the EU agencies we may have to leave, or FOM ending for British citizens, or a transition deal that nobody voted for, in regards to some of The Leave campaign's specific claims:

When are the free trade deals starting, particularly the one with The EU starting?
The £350m a week we'll save that could go to The NHS?
The Australian style points system for immigration and taking full control of our borders?
Other countries leaving The EU and it all ending, but Turkey joining it at the same time?
A new glorious age of fishing as we take control of our waters and all the fish in them, irrespective of their breeding grounds?

Any sign of these? Of course not - The campaign was wretched on both sides.

(As a disclaimer I'm not calling for a 2nd Referendum here, by the way)

 

[larus]

Yep. Youre scared as well. All Brexiteers are. If you were not, a 2nd referendum wouldnt bother you. If you check my recent posts on the matter, you would see I said lies from both sides.

Not scared. You lost - deal with it.

If you want another referendum (because it suits you), then you should be willing to accept other ones in the future.

You’re not? Ok, just another whinging hypocrite. “I want democracy, as long as I get what I want”.

Also, you wonder why I don’t want to trust things to politicians. I’ll give you one example. Jeremy Corbyn has voted against the EU at every opportunity in the past (quote from Dennis Skinner). Now he’s leader, he’s using Brexit as a way to gain political advantage, irrespective of the damage to the country. So no, f*ck the politicians (on all sides). They don’t do the best for the country, they do whats in their interest more often than not.

 

[Blue3]

And would you like to commit to agreeing that (if there was a second referendum and the vote was remain), that any future changes (joining Euro, loss of rebate, major treaties, etc.) would be put to a referendum too?

It seems as though the remainers are complaining about democracy and harp on about “Oh, it was only an advisory referendum” (but it was made clear that the will of the people would be implemented, so surely you’d agree that any future changes in our relationship should be decided by the will of the people and not just 650 MPs, many who want to get on the EU gravy-train.

For myself as a remainers I accept the decision to leave as that was the question asked but once the negotiations are complete I want to choose to vote for it or send the negotiators back to try and get a better deal that could be via a referendum or General Election

 

[larus]

For myself as a remainers I accept the decision to leave as that was the question asked but once the negotiations are complete I want to choose to vote for it or send the negotiators back to try and get a better deal that could be via a referendum or General Election

I have no problem with that (although there won’t be a ‘better offer’ from the EU). IMO, the only caveat is that we are not restocked to make our own trade deals and we do not have free movement.

 

[daveinprague]

Not scared. You lost - deal with it.

If you want another referendum (because it suits you), then you should be willing to accept other ones in the future.

You’re not? Ok, just another whinging hypocrite. “I want democracy, as long as I get what I want”.

Also, you wonder why I don’t want to trust things to politicians. I’ll give you one example. Jeremy Corbyn has voted against the EU at every opportunity in the past (quote from Dennis Skinner). Now he’s leader, he’s using Brexit as a way to gain political advantage, irrespective of the damage to the country. So no, f*ck the politicians (on all sides). They don’t do the best for the country, they do whats in their interest more often than not.

You seem happy to lead the country into the unknown, based on a vote that was made under a barrage of lies (from both sides). Your personal opinion is more important to you than the countries future, and handing over power to people you have just berated, the UK's politicians. Amazing. The people you have entrusted with the countries future. Your scared. Face it.

 

[larus]

You seem happy to lead the country into the unknown, based on a vote that was made under a barrage of lies (from both sides). Your personal opinion is more important to you than the countries future, and handing over power to people you have just said **** the UK's politicians. Amazing. The people you have entrusted with the countries future.

At least we can kick them out here every 5 years. Unlike the unelected types of Juncker etc.

Noticed you didn’t refute the point about your hypocrisy. You’re OK as long as it’s your type of democracy

 

[daveinprague]

At least we can kick them out here every 5 years. Unlike the unelected types of Juncker etc.

Noticed you didn’t refute the point about your hypocrisy. You’re OK as long as it’s your type of democracy

Not really a need. If you believe that a vote, based on lies from both sides, that concerns the countries future for decades, should not have the most stringent checks first, then well, I believe its because you are scared that you will lose a 2nd Referendum. Every Brexiteer thinks the same way. Dont worry

PS Each new President is nominated by the European Council and formally elected by the European Parliament, for a five-year term.

 

[larus]

Not really a need. If you believe that a vote, based on lies from both sides, that concerns the countries future for decades, should not have the most stringent checks first, then well, I believe its because you are scared that you will lose a 2nd Referendum. Every Brexiteer thinks the same way. Dont worry

I’m not worried. We voted leave. We will be leaving. And you will still be whinging and being a hypocrite.

Anyway, stuff to do so out of here now.

Enjoy your day as we count down to a new era in the big wide world. And Project Fear will be proven to have been just lies.

 

[daveinprague]

I’m not worried. We voted leave. We will be leaving. And you will still be whinging and being a hypocrite.

Anyway, stuff to do so out of here now.

Enjoy your day as we count down to a new era in the big wide world. And Project Fear will be proven to have been just lies.

Scared as ****

 

[Stoo82]

Not really a need. If you believe that a vote, based on lies from both sides, that concerns the countries future for decades, should not have the most stringent checks first, then well, I believe its because you are scared that you will lose a 2nd Referendum. Every Brexiteer thinks the same way. Dont worry

PS Each new President is nominated by the European Council and formally elected by the European Parliament, for a five-year term.

The point is, nobody is electing what these people stand for. New rules and laws are implimented without the influence of the people. The EU is Democracy from the top down.

 

[daveinprague]

The point is, nobody is electing what these people stand for. New rules and laws are implimented without the influence of the people. The EU is Democracy from the top down.

MEPs I believe with a group led by somebody who vehemently hates the EU. Ours were mostly in the bar and had no influence.

 

[beorhthelm]

Not really a need. If you believe that a vote, based on lies from both sides, that concerns the countries future for decades, should not have the most stringent checks first, then well, I believe its because you are scared that you will lose a 2nd Referendum. Every Brexiteer thinks the same way. Dont worry

PS Each new President is nominated by the European Council and formally elected by the European Parliament, for a five-year term.

the EU President is selected from a pool of pro-EU candidates, voted on by pro-EU European Council and signed off by a pro-EU parliament, who have no other choice. there's no scope for change of policy or direction for EU. democratic?

of course Brexiteers are scared of another referendum in case the outcome of the previos is overturned, thats the only reason why remainers want one. they can rerun the fear campaign , point at how badly its been handled so on. they might be right. but it would override the basic tenent of democracy that you accept the result. will you accept another referendum in couple years if the Brexit movement more popular? why is a vote to remain "right" and vote to leave "wrong"?

 

[daveinprague]

the EU President is selected from a pool of pro-EU candidates, voted on by pro-EU European Council and signed off by a pro-EU parliament, who have no other choice. there's no scope for change of policy or direction for EU. democratic?

of course Brexiteers are scared of another referendum in case the outcome of the previos is overturned, thats the only reason why remainers want one. they can rerun the fear campaign , point at how badly its been handled so on. they might be right. but it would override the basic tenent of democracy that you accept the result. will you accept another referendum in couple years if the Brexit movement more popular? why is a vote to remain "right" and vote to leave "wrong"?

Im not sure leaving the EU, with no plan in sight, even now, is 'right'.

 

[nicko31]

Rumours of an extension to the extension (sorry, an extension to the implementation period)

Of course we'll have to get the other 27 to agree to it

Surreal times, the Tories are arguing which is better the customs arrangement or the max fac thingee...but at the end of the day this is irrelevant as the EU will not agree to either.

Remain in the CU as absolute minimum and pref key bits of the single market. Big decision for Labour as the real cost of Brexit on ordinary people becomes more apparent.

 

[The Clamp]

At least we can kick them out here every 5 years. Unlike the unelected types of Juncker etc.

Noticed you didn’t refute the point about your hypocrisy. You’re OK as long as it’s your type of democracy

Pffft.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

The point is, nobody is electing what these people stand for. New rules and laws are implimented without the influence of the people. The EU is Democracy from the top down.

I can give you two for starters, GDPR and new MOT rules. GDPR is just more EU bureaucracy, another way to take control and another way for the EU to fine large companies money. Work with a few companies, they follow the rules but for them it's just more hassle. Small companies just don't have time to read through the crap they come up with.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I can give you two for starters, GDPR and new MOT rules. GDPR is just more EU bureaucracy, another way to take control and another way for the EU to fine large companies money. Work with a few companies, they follow the rules but for them it's just more hassle. Small companies just don't have time to read through the crap they come up with.

Are you suggesting small business should not protect personal and private data?