[Politics] Brexit

[nicko31]

Incredible all this, isn't it.

It must be difficult for her, she knows the UK will be poorer and so does every PM still alive.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Wise words. The mindsets of many strong Brexiters seem to have, as a leading British historian has said, theological undertones. Anyone who wants an outcome different to the one they want is self-consumed, a dissident, a collaborator, a traitor.

It wasn't always like this. A quarter of a century ago the Eurosceptic wing of the Tory Party really starting stirring things up. Notwithstanding a shattered John Major's semi-humorous epithet about The B******s, it remained a civilised and collegiate party. There were large degrees of respect on both sides. Move on to today. A couple of weeks ago, the habitually loyal and quiet Dominic Grieve walked into a HoC tearoom. As he sat down, alone, every Tory MP within shouting distance stood up and walked away. Many of them were long-time colleagues. It doesn't stop there.The distaste that someone like JCFG or Pastafarian has for anyone who would like a further consultation shows how this malignant spirit has tricked down, all the way to this lowly spot. Many of us are contemptible, according to JCFC; moronic and hypocritical according to Pasta.

A couple of days ago we were at The Dome for the Royal Phil's Christmas Concert. As is traditional, the orchestra and soprano put together a music sketch of the year. The Brexit-based chorus included the words 'The England we know is changed forever'. That seems accurate, and not in a good way.

Even as a leaver I have some sympathy for this view. I don't actually have a problem with MPs having the final say on the deal itself. What I do object to is anything that prevents the result of the referendum being enacted. So I'm fine with a choice of deal A, deal B or no deal BUT I would strongly object to there being an option to not leave at all and keep the status quo - we, as a nation, voted to leave and this should be honoured - how is up for discussion.

 

[CHAPPERS]

It must be difficult for her, she knows the UK will be poorer and so does every PM still alive.

Nah, she doesn't care.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Wise words. The mindsets of many strong Brexiters seem to have, as a leading British historian has said, theological undertones. Anyone who wants an outcome different to the one they want is self-consumed, a dissident, a collaborator, a traitor.

It wasn't always like this. A quarter of a century ago the Eurosceptic wing of the Tory Party really starting stirring things up. Notwithstanding a shattered John Major's semi-humorous epithet about The B******s, it remained a civilised and collegiate party. There were large degrees of respect on both sides. Move on to today. A couple of weeks ago, the habitually loyal and quiet Dominic Grieve walked into a HoC tearoom. As he sat down, alone, every Tory MP within shouting distance stood up and walked away. Many of them were long-time colleagues. It doesn't stop there.The distaste that someone like JCFG or Pastafarian has for anyone who would like a further consultation shows how this malignant spirit has tricked down, all the way to this lowly spot. Many of us are contemptible, according to JCFC; moronic and hypocritical according to Pasta.

A couple of days ago we were at The Dome for the Royal Phil's Christmas Concert. As is traditional, the orchestra and soprano put together a music sketch of the year. The Brexit-based chorus included the words 'The England we know is changed forever'. That seems accurate, and not in a good way.

I have never known Britain to be so divided. For sure there was always the differences between red and blue but I have never known differences to be so heated like they currently are with Brexit. I know one person with a Croatian wife who didn’t speak to his Brexit voting mother for months. I know 4 people who have left the UK as a direct result of Brexit. I know of a person who have walked out of a bar to prevent themselves “lamping a friend” and i was enjoying a quiet beer in France last year when some goon over heard my conversation and steamed into our private chat to “put me straight” about Theresa May. Whatever happens with May and her negotiations the divisions are too deep and people are too angry. That’s the idiosy of such a seismic change based on a simple question with a simple majority. Britain has spent decades grappling with many things which most countries resolved decades ago.....once Brexit is done you still need to figure out whether state, free, academy or whatever education is the best. You still need to fix your health care. You still need to fix public transport. You still need to rebalance your economy. Having such a decided nation will not help any of this.

 

[nicko31]

I have never known Britain to be so divided. For sure there was always the differences between red and blue but I have never known differences to be so heated like they currently are with Brexit. I know one person with a Croatian wife who didn’t speak to his Brexit voting mother for months. I know 4 people who have left the UK as a direct result of Brexit. I know of a person who have walked out of a bar to prevent themselves “lamping a friend” and i was enjoying a quiet beer in France last year when some goon over heard my conversation and steamed into our private chat to “put me straight” about Theresa May. Whatever happens with May and her negotiations the divisions are too deep and people are too angry. That’s the idiosy of such a seismic change based on a simple question with a simple majority. Britain has spent decades grappling with many things which most countries resolved decades ago.....once Brexit is done you still need to figure out whether state, free, academy or whatever education is the best. You still need to fix your health care. You still need to fix public transport. You still need to rebalance your economy. Having such a decided nation will not help any of this.

The divide within families was reported shortly after the vote but has been little mentioned in the press since. I know of several families that have been torn apart by Brexit including my own, upsetting relatives who chose to settle in Europe and siblings that chose to marry EU nationals. And all this because the Tories couldn't deal with the long standing divisions in own party. I've voted for them in the past BUT NEVER NEVER AGAIN. They have no majority to govern and should be working cross party but they press on in complete disarray

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

No wonder Farage is skint if UKIP are still having to do mail drops like this.

View attachment 92106

very pleased to see this this morning
regards
DR

 

[Gwylan]

I'm afraid I don't have any sympathy for those that didn't vote. By default they allowed others to make their choice for them so tough. And yes, I'd be saying that which ever side won.

Polling companies go to great efforts to get accurate samples of voters, so I imagine that a few of them would have been under 18 two years ago and wouldn't have been able to vote - and conversely, a few of our older voters would have been no longer with us. Given that the under-25s were overwhelmingly remain and the over-75s were overwhelmingly to leave, that would have an effect on the sample

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Amusing to see the extreme Remaniac fringe who help feed division and entrench views complain about division. Brilliant.

I remember a country where most people accepted the result of free and fair elections and believed the will of the majority should be enacted. I wonder when this changed ... oh yes I remember, it was 23rd June 2016.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Amusing to see the extreme Remaniac fringe who help feed division and entrench views complain about division. Brilliant.

I remember a country where most people accepted the result of free and fair elections and believed the will of the majority should be enacted. I wonder when this changed ... oh yes I remember, it was 23rd June 2016.

Off he goes again, sadly.

 

[portslade seagull]

Off he goes again, sadly.

It's true though. None of you accept a fair result. You just keep griping

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

It's true though. None of you accept a fair result. You just keep griping

And all the while you haven’t decided which education system is best, you’re health care is ****ed, you can’t run trains and you have a woefully imbalanced economy I will “gripe.” Someone has to because your government certainly don’t care.

 

[pastafarian]

Off he goes again, sadly.

He has a point though.
Why your insistence to have the vote to Leave ignored now before it has been enacted?
If you want a real democratic process then surely allow Leaving to happen then campaign to rejoin later on with the knowledge you will have years of actual data of life OUTSIDE The EU to compare with life INSIDE the EU and put your case(if you have one), as opposed to consultation now which can only result in forecasts and speculation to future outcomes along similar lines to what both sides could only use in the original debate, which incidentally you didnt care for.
Lets not forget either the damage your version of not letting brexit become enacted does to democracy,accountability and the broken trust in parliament.

 

[nicko31]

He has a point though.
Why your insistence to have the vote to Leave ignored now before it has been enacted?
If you want a real democratic process then surely allow Leaving to happen then campaign to rejoin later on with the knowledge you will have years of actual data of life OUTSIDE The EU to compare with life INSIDE the EU and put your case(if you have one), as opposed to consultation now which can only result in forecasts and speculation to future outcomes along similar lines to what both sides could only use in the original debate, which incidentally you didnt care for.
Lets not forget either the damage your version of not letting brexit become enacted does to democracy,accountability and the broken trust in parliament.

Or alternatively realise that leaving has already cost us £350m / week since the vote and go for the softest possible Brexit. Damage limitation..

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

It's true though. None of you accept a fair result. You just keep griping

So we shouldn’t dissect and discuss the utter disaster that Brexit has been thus far and likely will be? We should just be quiet and get on with it? By that logic there would be no need for a political opposition and whoever is government should just be allowed to do whatever they like because they were democratically voted in.

I would have more patience for the pro Brexit argument if Brexiters hadn’t contradicted themselves so spectacularly since the referendum.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

He has a point though.
Why your insistence to have the vote to Leave ignored now before it has been enacted?
If you want a real democratic process then surely allow Leaving to happen then campaign to rejoin later on with the knowledge you will have years of actual data of life OUTSIDE The EU to compare with life INSIDE the EU and put your case(if you have one), as opposed to consultation now which can only result in forecasts and speculation to future outcomes along similar lines to what both sides could only use in the original debate, which incidentally you didnt care for.
Lets not forget either the damage your version of not letting brexit become enacted does to democracy,accountability and the broken trust in parliament.

"Ignoring the vote to leave"... "Not letting Brexit happen"... These are misleading descriptions of what is being called for.

 

[pastafarian]

Or alternatively realise that leaving has already cost us £350m / week since the vote and go for the softest possible Brexit. Damage limitation..

You are proposing respecting the vote to Leave and Leaving the EU, all be it on the softest possible terms. Lincoln is proposing the vote to Leave should be ignored and we Remain in, two widely different standpoints im sure you will agree.

So we shouldn’t dissect and discuss the utter disaster that Brexit has been thus far and likely will be? We should just be quiet and get on with it? By that logic there would be no need for a political opposition and whoever is government should just be allowed to do whatever they like because they were democratically voted in.

I would have more patience for the pro Brexit argument if Brexiters hadn’t contradicted themselves so spectacularly since the referendum.

You are entitled to whinge,whine and gripe as much as you want. We are also entitled to point out to you that you can do this as much as you want whilst not forgetting there was a democratic vote to Leave which must result in Leaving.
Some are using gripeomania as a tool though to halt Brexit, that is where the problems arise.

 

[nicko31]

So we shouldn’t dissect and discuss the utter disaster that Brexit has been thus far and likely will be? We should just be quiet and get on with it? By that logic there would be no need for a political opposition and whoever is government should just be allowed to do whatever they like because they were democratically voted in.

I would have more patience for the pro Brexit argument if Brexiters hadn’t contradicted themselves so spectacularly since the referendum.

That's right they won 52-48, the working 48% who contribute the majority of the tax take in this country are the losers.

Its over, no further discussion needed, no need for debate, no need for parliament, no need to pay cover our financial obligations, no need to worry about the good Friday agreement, no need to worry about financial services that contributes 18% of our GDP, no need to worry about those wings at airbus, the million or so jobs around automotive manufacturing, EURATOM.... We're leaving, we out, we're free. They're queuing up for trade deals with us and Andrea Leadsoms homemade jam and biscuits. We need to be quiet and wait for JRM to be PM, he'll save us

 

[pastafarian]

"Ignoring the vote to leave"... "Not letting Brexit happen"... These are misleading descriptions of what is being called for.

Then repeat after me.
The democratic vote to Leave The European Union should be respected and the UK should Leave The European Union..........i have yet to see you come out with this statement.

 

[The Merry Prankster]

Then repeat after me.
The democratic vote to Leave The European Union should be respected and the UK should Leave The European Union..........i have yet to see you come out with this statement.

I'll quite happily go along with that but I want very serious consideration given to all the points covered below and more. All I hear at the moment is fantasy thinking and lies. Frankly there is little difference between PPF and Davis, Fox, Gove and May apart from their grasp of English.

That's right they won 52-48, the working 48% who contribute the majority of the tax take in this country are the losers.

Its over, no further discussion needed, no need for debate, no need for parliament, no need to pay cover our financial obligations, no need to worry about the good Friday agreement, no need to worry about financial services that contributes 18% of our GDP, no need to worry about those wings at airbus, the million or so jobs around automotive manufacturing, EURATOM.... We're leaving, we out, we're free. They're queuing up for trade deals with us and Andrea Leadsoms homemade jam and biscuits. We need to be quiet and wait for JRM to be PM, he'll save us

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Then repeat after me.
The democratic vote to Leave The European Union should be respected and the UK should Leave The European Union..........i have yet to see you come out with this statement.

It should be respected, unless the people decide otherwise. You can repeat that I want the vote simply Ignored until you're blue in the face but it won't make it true.