[Politics] Brexit

[5ways]

whilst the tabloids certianly put their spin and stretch half truth, theres a deeper truth shown there. i've scan a half dozen and in each case there was a European directive, EU working paper or some such in the origin. we see what want of course, to me that list is indicative of core of the problem of the European project, the attempt to impose some buracracy on every facet of life.
(since read a few more and to be fair there is also some completely made up nonsense too)

This 'bureaucracy' is almost entirely standardising regulation across the EU which allows frictionless trade and movement. 'Every facet of life', hardly.

 

[pastafarian]

You're wasting your time, some people on here don't understand how parliament works

Youve got that right.
Some people on here are pinning their entire hopes of ignoring the vote before it can be implemented on another referendum even though Parliament was voted and rejected the notion.

 

[pastafarian]

So all in all what was promised that will actually happen in the real world rather than a fantasy world?

When we are finally out of The EU and all transitional or implementation periods have time expired we will not have free movement of people, we will not be fully paid up members of the EU internal market, we will have returned more law making powers back to Westminster from Brussels and the ECJ will not be the prime court.
Are you saying the reality is these prominent issues will now not be delivered as promised.and promoted, so in essence we should just give up and pack it all in?

 

[portslade seagull]

interesting. A poll carried out by Sky had 74% that wanted a no deal over a any deal on Brexit. People's mindset are changing due to the EU's stance as it stands. Sky seemed to be somewhat put out at this outcome.

 

[Hampster Gull]

interesting. A poll carried out by Sky had 74% that wanted a no deal over a any deal on Brexit. People's mindset are changing due to the EU's stance as it stands. Sky seemed to be somewhat put out at this outcome.

I understand that frustration, have had a few moments myself. But we if we are all honest with ourselves our government has been a complete and utter shambles on this and it's really hard to blame anyone else but our supposed political leaders. This is third world stuff

 

[Berty23]

interesting. A poll carried out by Sky had 74% that wanted a no deal over a any deal on Brexit. People's mindset are changing due to the EU's stance as it stands. Sky seemed to be somewhat put out at this outcome.

And this is why the referendum was a bad idea. What proportion of the population understand the Northern Ireland issue with no deal. Here is another vote leave staffer explaining why no deal is a car crash. https://twitter.com/olivernorgrove/status/918146495584653313

 

[portslade seagull]

And this is why the referendum was a bad idea. What proportion of the population understand the Northern Ireland issue with no deal. Here is another vote leave staffer explaining why no deal is a car crash. https://twitter.com/olivernorgrove/status/918146495584653313

Trouble is if you try to bully the Great British public they will rebel. The EU could find this out at there cost. The way Barnier and the drunkard Juncker go on has alienated a fair few by the look. May has some hope after all thanks to them

 

[Jim D]

And this is why the referendum was a bad idea. What proportion of the population understand the Northern Ireland issue with no deal. Here is another vote leave staffer explaining why no deal is a car crash. https://twitter.com/olivernorgrove/status/918146495584653313

You can wheel out as many clever people as you like to give their reasons why the electorate are idiots and should be made to do it again but we are made of stronger stuff than that. It's in our blood to stand up against bullys and tyrants and when we see the EU saying that they want to teach us a lesson and refusing to discuss anything before they get the money they're demanding they can spot bullying and blackmail a mile off. We don't give in to these sort of people - never have and never will. The UK Brexit team may be struggling, but they're OUR team and fighting hard for us against the EUs constant refusal to engage in any realistic discussion. If the EU had wanted to paint a vivid picture of what life would be like inside that despicable organisation should we ever want to return they couldn't have done it any better than show what their true regard for us really is. 74% will only get bigger.

 

[Berty23]

You can wheel out as many clever people as you like to give their reasons why the electorate are idiots and should be made to do it again but we are made of stronger stuff than that. It's in our blood to stand up against bullys and tyrants and when we see the EU saying that they want to teach us a lesson and refusing to discuss anything before they get the money they're demanding they can spot bullying and blackmail a mile off. We don't give in to these sort of people - never have and never will. The UK Brexit team may be struggling, but they're OUR team and fighting hard for us against the EUs constant refusal to engage in any realistic discussion. If the EU had wanted to paint a vivid picture of what life would be like inside that despicable organisation should we ever want to return they couldn't have done it any better than show what their true regard for us really is. 74% will only get bigger.

and the media get their way. Brilliant.

The average guess from the public for unemployment in this country is about 20% (it is about a fifth of that), proportion of population Muslims is thought to be 20% - it is 5%. Proportion Christian is thought to be 40% but it is about 60%

This are perceptions compared to facts. Just because people think something does not make it correct.

As predicted on here several months ago the brexiteers will fail with their "have our cake and eat it" deal and will shift the narrative to the big bully EU who are looking after their people as we would want them to look after us if the USA played rough. We want to leave and they don't want us to. Why would they make it easy?

I can't believe I am having to say this again.

Fortunately they need us more than we need them so all will be cool.

Time for another break from this thread for me as the patriotic nonsense is beyond a joke. The reality appears to have vanished.

 

[Hampster Gull]

You can wheel out as many clever people as you like to give their reasons why the electorate are idiots and should be made to do it again but we are made of stronger stuff than that. It's in our blood to stand up against bullys and tyrants and when we see the EU saying that they want to teach us a lesson and refusing to discuss anything before they get the money they're demanding they can spot bullying and blackmail a mile off. We don't give in to these sort of people - never have and never will. The UK Brexit team may be struggling, but they're OUR team and fighting hard for us against the EUs constant refusal to engage in any realistic discussion. If the EU had wanted to paint a vivid picture of what life would be like inside that despicable organisation should we ever want to return they couldn't have done it any better than show what their true regard for us really is. 74% will only get bigger.

Why do Brexitears on here have a real complexity about how others perceive or don't perceive their intelligence? It's a very dull. I don't see anyone else rattle on about it. Do you really believe it or is it just a bit of fun?

Do you really believe the EU is bullying the UK? The two parties are in a negotiation, it will go up and down and each side test relative strengths and weaknesses. A compromise will be made, but of course the side with the most power is likely to have the upper hand. I see no signs of the EU bullying. How do you define bullying in this context?

The team may be fighting hard, I expect the workers in the team absolutely are. The leaders of those teams though are a shambles and are fighting for their own political power and leadership positions. A national disgrace more like.

 

[pastafarian]

Here is another vote leave staffer explaining why no deal is a car crash. https://twitter.com/olivernorgrove/status/918146495584653313

Never heard of him, when you say staffer do you mean he answered the phone in the office or something?
He keeps talking to himself on twitter though, i dont have it, is that normal twitter behaviour. I wonder if he is linked to your repeated peternorth rantings, it does seem like a rather obscure person for you to follow on twitter.

Time for another break from this thread for me as the patriotic nonsense is beyond a joke. The reality appears to have vanished.

Dont go, you are The Voice of remain on here, your fakenews and bullcrap are more than welcome.

 

[The Rivet]

and the media get their way. Brilliant.

The average guess from the public for unemployment in this country is about 20% (it is about a fifth of that), proportion of population Muslims is thought to be 20% - it is 5%. Proportion Christian is thought to be 40% but it is about 60%

This are perceptions compared to facts. Just because people think something does not make it correct.

As predicted on here several months ago the brexiteers will fail with their "have our cake and eat it" deal and will shift the narrative to the big bully EU who are looking after their people as we would want them to look after us if the USA played rough. We want to leave and they don't want us to. Why would they make it easy?

I can't believe I am having to say this again.

Fortunately they need us more than we need them so all will be cool.

Time for another break from this thread for me as the patriotic nonsense is beyond a joke. The reality appears to have vanished.

I and a fair few others hope you don't post drivel on here again. Take a long sabbatical and come back AFTER we have left. Cheers. Try a prozac pill.

 

[Baldseagull]

The government and the EU have agreed #### all so far…….see the difference?Two sides in the talks.
Saying that, with only a few weeks of actual sit down talks under their belt so far it would be a miracle if things were at an advanced stage already…….i can however see the frustration of the I want everything now brigade who seem to lack any kind of pragmatic patience nowadays.

You must be a little crackers if you think a cross party group of Tories, Labour, Liberal, SNP, DUP, Plaid Cymru, Ulster Unionist, Green and UKIP are going to be any kind of united body on Brexit. It would take them a 100 years to agree the representation of the group.

Kinell fella, not expecting things to be at an advanced stage, just thought we might have got through the first stage by now.

 

[Baldseagull]

Unfortunately for you, the relationship analogy is far from crap. It just doesn't support your view, so you don't like it. Care of the children (analogy: UK citizens abroad and EU citizens in the UK) would indeed take place early in the negotiations, including the financial arrangements, and access (i.e. movement of said children/people) - and such negotiations would of course include financial arrangements. There would not be a demand for a shed load of cash before even agreeing to discuss that.


Stating the 'right' amount before negotiating exactly what is being paid for is a shocking negotiating position - EU please take note; although of course the EU don't want the negotiations to succeed. Where the UK leads, others are likely to follow - they certainly don't want that!

Who did that then?

 

[Baldseagull]

You can wheel out as many clever people as you like to give their reasons why the electorate are idiots and should be made to do it again but we are made of stronger stuff than that. It's in our blood to stand up against bullys and tyrants and when we see the EU saying that they want to teach us a lesson and refusing to discuss anything before they get the money they're demanding they can spot bullying and blackmail a mile off. We don't give in to these sort of people - never have and never will. The UK Brexit team may be struggling, but they're OUR team and fighting hard for us against the EUs constant refusal to engage in any realistic discussion. If the EU had wanted to paint a vivid picture of what life would be like inside that despicable organisation should we ever want to return they couldn't have done it any better than show what their true regard for us really is. 74% will only get bigger.

Did you have a Union flag billowing behind you, and have Jerusalem playing in the background whilst typing that?

 

[LlcoolJ]

Did you have a Union flag billowing behind you, and have Jerusalem playing in the background whilst typing that?

David Davis and Liam Fox "fighting hard for us". What....er..... but......

It would be hilarious if it didn't actually affect everyone. Including the idiot who wrote that. I want to laugh at these simpletons but it's not funny. At all.

 

[Mental Lental]

David Davis and Liam Fox "fighting hard for us". What....er..... but......

I want to laugh at these simpletons but it's not funny. At all.

Breximpletons!

 

[Jim D]

Why do Brexitears on here have a real complexity about how others perceive or don't perceive their intelligence? It's a very dull. I don't see anyone else rattle on about it. Do you really believe it or is it just a bit of fun?

Do you really believe the EU is bullying the UK? The two parties are in a negotiation, it will go up and down and each side test relative strengths and weaknesses. A compromise will be made, but of course the side with the most power is likely to have the upper hand. I see no signs of the EU bullying. How do you define bullying in this context?

The team may be fighting hard, I expect the workers in the team absolutely are. The leaders of those teams though are a shambles and are fighting for their own political power and leadership positions. A national disgrace more like.

So you don't think that, ever since the referendum, we have been bombarded with reasons why we got it wrong and why people voted to leave? Frankly, for me, it's water off a duck's back but it doesn't stop people from trawling through masses of comment and reporting to find articles negative to Brexit and gleefully posting them here. The general trend of these articles is to imply the electorate (or at least those voting to leave) didn't know what they were doing and that there should be another vote.
Regarding bullying, I don't know what else you can call it when people like Juncker say that that they want to teach us a lesson and that we must not come out of this well. The fact that they insisted on the successful resolution of the three items before moving on - surely most now accept that the Irish border issue can't be resolved before we know what the trading arrangements will be. I think we were foolish to agree to this but our hand was forced by the EUs ridiculous refusal to discuss anything else. The EU are fully aware that we need to move forward quickly and their tactics are all about slowing everything down. We expect both sides to approach these negotiations determined to get the best outcome but, while we know what that will be for us, the EUs best outcome seems to be that we will be made an example of - and no other member country will want to leave ever again. Do you think that's not bullying?
As for the team (and you have to include everyone in it) I think we've done remarkably well considering that we had almost no trained negotiators at the start - and the EU in general had many more. I have no idea what the respective differences of our or their leadership are, but I see ours trying to move on and theirs just standing there saying 'no'.

 

[WATFORD zero]

So you don't think that, ever since the referendum, we have been bombarded with reasons why we got it wrong and why people voted to leave? Frankly, for me, it's water off a duck's back but it doesn't stop people from trawling through masses of comment and reporting to find articles negative to Brexit and gleefully posting them here. The general trend of these articles is to imply the electorate (or at least those voting to leave) didn't know what they were doing and that there should be another vote.
Regarding bullying, I don't know what else you can call it when people like Juncker say that that they want to teach us a lesson and that we must not come out of this well. The fact that they insisted on the successful resolution of the three items before moving on - surely most now accept that the Irish border issue can't be resolved before we know what the trading arrangements will be. I think we were foolish to agree to this but our hand was forced by the EUs ridiculous refusal to discuss anything else. The EU are fully aware that we need to move forward quickly and their tactics are all about slowing everything down. We expect both sides to approach these negotiations determined to get the best outcome but, while we know what that will be for us, the EUs best outcome seems to be that we will be made an example of - and no other member country will want to leave ever again. Do you think that's not bullying?
As for the team (and you have to include everyone in it) I think we've done remarkably well considering that we had almost no trained negotiators at the start - and the EU in general had many more. I have no idea what the respective differences of our or their leadership are, but I see ours trying to move on and theirs just standing there saying 'no'.

The EU are negotiating from an incredibly strong position and will ensure that members of the club will get a far better deal than those who aren't in the club.I have no idea whether our negotiating team are doing well or not, but they were f***ed from the start (and before you start again about JC etc, it's not a left/right thing).

The only question I have is what the f*** did you expect, 'here's a great deal and don't pay us anything ?'

And don't hold your breath waiting for a result. If negotiations completed tomorrow, there is no way we could implement the result in time. (And that is from some years of working with Government and Civil Service). There will be a fudge.

 

[daveinprague]

Protecting your own interests, is not bullying. We would do exactly the same in the EU's position. Sadly, our negotiating position for this adventure appears to be on all fours.