[Politics] Brexit

[Jim D]

You're wasting your time, some people on here don't understand how parliament works

Are you Donald Trump? I'm not Tillerson but you're probably a moron.

 

[GT49er]

If they leave and leave you with long term financial commitments such as cars on loan, credit card debts and a massive mortgage sorting that comes very early in a chat doesn't it? Granted the relationship analogy is crap as decisions are quicker than two years. I am pretty sure that in a divorce all long term financial commitments need to be sorted out don't they?

This isn't a fine or some other thing, it is funding that was agreed based on us being in the EU. Isn't it just honouring debts?

Unfortunately for you, the relationship analogy is far from crap. It just doesn't support your view, so you don't like it. Care of the children (analogy: UK citizens abroad and EU citizens in the UK) would indeed take place early in the negotiations, including the financial arrangements, and access (i.e. movement of said children/people) - and such negotiations would of course include financial arrangements. There would not be a demand for a shed load of cash before even agreeing to discuss that.

The right amount can be debated but just refusing to pay won't work will it?

Stating the 'right' amount before negotiating exactly what is being paid for is a shocking negotiating position - EU please take note; although of course the EU don't want the negotiations to succeed. Where the UK leads, others are likely to follow - they certainly don't want that!

 

[lawros left foot]

http://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/euromyths-a-z-index/

Interesting reading

 

[Berty23]

Unfortunately for you, the relationship analogy is far from crap. It just doesn't support your view, so you don't like it. Care of the children (analogy: UK citizens abroad and EU citizens in the UK) would indeed take place early in the negotiations, including the financial arrangements, and access (i.e. movement of said children/people) - and such negotiations would of course include financial arrangements. There would not be a demand for a shed load of cash before even agreeing to discuss that.


Stating the 'right' amount before negotiating exactly what is being paid for is a shocking negotiating position - EU please take note; although of course the EU don't want the negotiations to succeed. Where the UK leads, others are likely to follow - they certainly don't want that!

If course the eu doesn't want it which is why they will not bend over backwards for us. This is exactly what was always going to happen which is why it is so staggering that anyone thought it would be easy.

The relationship is a crap analogy. Just as no longer paying sky subs but expecting to receive sky is also crap. They just don't work with something this complex.

 

[nicko31]

http://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/euromyths-a-z-index/

Interesting reading

And Boris thought it was true

Myth: Curved bananas have been banned by Brussels bureaucrats, with shops ordered not to sell fruit which is too small or abnormally bent.
Sources: The Sun, Daily Mirror, Daily Mail, Daily Express (21 September 1994)

Truth: Yes … and no. Curved bananas have not been banned. In fact, as with the supposed banning of curved cucumbers, the Commission regulation classifies bananas according to quality and size for the sake of easing the trade of bananas internationally.
Quality standards are necessary in order that people buying and ordering bananas can rest assured that what they are getting lives up to their expectations. Individual EU member states have tended to have their own standards, as has the industry (whose standards are often very stringent). The European Commission was asked by the Council of Ministers and the industry to prepare a draft regulation laying down EU quality standards, and this has been the subject of consultation for some time now. As such it represents a consensus position. The following points should be noted however:
1) These are minimal rules, applied solely to green, unripe bananas, rather than those destined for the processing industry.
2) These standards should improve the quality of bananas produced within the Community. They should thus be able to command a higher price in the Community markets. This should also help reduce Community aid and therefore relieve pressure on the Community budget.
3) Far from being an interference in trade these norms should facilitate it throughout the Community

 

[GT49er]

Just as no longer paying sky subs but expecting to receive sky is also crap.

You've got it arse over tit again. If you don't want Sky you don't pay subscriptions.

 

[Berty23]

You've got it arse over tit again. If you don't want Sky you don't pay subscriptions.

Correct. And you don't expect to get Sky tv. I.e. Have cake and eat it as per Brexit. We can't leave and expect the benefits - which is a little porky we were told isn't it. The sky analogy is used by remainers who make it basic like the relationship example.

 

[Ernest]

You've got it arse over tit again. If you don't want Sky you don't pay subscriptions.

Unless you are locked into a contract and then have to pay to be released from it

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Project Fear not working doesn't seem to have held you back though with your party political posts on behalf of The Conservative & Unionist party and pro-Brexit doctrine, normally complete with links to The Daily Telegraph and Guido Fawkes blog site with pro-Brexit and pro-Tory spin articles and scaremongering, exaggerated, misleading points against Labour or opposition or negative thinking to the ideology of Brexit such as the 'extremist loons' of the Liberal Democrat party as you refer to them.

This thread merely reflects the state of this country at the moment rather accurately at present - a divisive mess.

The majority of my posts are spent refuting doomsday hyperbolic nonsense or correcting inaccurate claims using numerous SAUCES. I rarely mention the Tories and the only 'doctrine' I have is respecting the democratic will of the majority. Pointing out the hypocrisy and incompetence of Real/Continuity Labour and calling undemocratic loons undemocratic loons is entirely fair and factually accurate. Apart from that, you have a point.

Speaking of Guido ... https://order-order.com/2017/10/09/cringeworthy-rudd-memes-worse-than-activate/ 'Tory Boy 999' handiwork looks suspiciously like an account that a class warrior Rudd fantasist or his Tory member infiltrator friend might dream up after one too many in Spoons .... well?

 

[JC Footy Genius]

You are right, I didn't know (said as much earlier this week). Have since researched him and he falls into the camp with many others who argued vehemently that they need us more than we need them and they can't even be bothered to prepare for no deal as it matters so little for them. You list MPs from a party whose current position is to support Brexit. If you think them not publicly slating it is proof they are happy then you don't understand politics. The other person is Farage who will probably move to Germany to go and engage with the people he ironically and proudly slated with his Dunkirk photo. He will support Brexit to the bitter end. Let's see how this progresses as people realise the reality.

Interestingly two cabinet Remainers now say they would vote Leave because the predicted immediate post referendum crash never happened and the economy remains robust plus the way the EU has acted in negotaitions. Do two Remain cabinet members changing positions outway D Cummings and an unknown blogger I wonder.

Agree with your last sentence, lets wait and see before making definitive judgements.

 

[Berty23]

Interestingly two cabinet Remainers now say they would vote Leave because the predicted immediate post referendum crash never happened and the economy remains robust plus the way the EU has acted in negotaitions. Do two Remain cabinet members changing positions outway D Cummings and an unknown blogger I wonder.

Agree with your last sentence, lets wait and see before making definitive judgements.

Two MPs towing the party line. No way. Interesting pm didn't say that.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Even some of our friends on the continent are getting a little perturbed at the EU's intransigence/behaviour ...



https://www.theguardian.com/politic...smisses-eu-wrangling-brexit-divorce-bill-game

 

[nicko31]

http://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/euromyths-a-z-index/

Interesting reading

Whoever put this site together, fair play to them

24 years of anti-EU propaganda from Daker, Desmond, Murdoch and the Barclay brothers. Staggering the crap they've written over the years

 

[ManOfSussex]

Speaking of Guido ... https://order-order.com/2017/10/09/cringeworthy-rudd-memes-worse-than-activate/ 'Tory Boy 999' handiwork looks suspiciously like an account that a class warrior Rudd fantasist or his Tory member infiltrator friend might dream up after one too many in Spoons .... well?

It is actually a genuine and a somewhat rather haphazard first attempt at helping in the online campaign stakes from some idiots in her local association unfortunately for her. Unfortunately too for Guido, he hasn't seen the handiwork Hastings Solidarity create and aim at her before he calls foul play at genuine efforts to assist her in his blog - no need to parody her when there's so much ammunition to use based on things she's said and done.

I was however quite literally crying with laughter when I got shown the one below in the pub on Saturday afternoon because it is genuine. Some content and accounts have now been removed or set to private since The Times article though - I suspect they might be having a rethink, because if they or Activate actually think they can take on Momentum Hastings or Hastings Solidarity, the latter of which in particular, and win her votes they're somewhat deluded to put it mildly. She's now given up on any Tory leadership bid ambitions as I've previously said, so she's somehow going to have to soldier on, fight the tears that flowed in June and stand again in Hastings & Rye in the next election and will need all the help she can muster. Best of luck to her, because with friends like this.......................

 

[lawros left foot]

Whoever put this site together, fair play to them

24 years of anti-EU propaganda from Daker, Desmond, Murdoch and the Barclay brothers. Staggering the crap they've written over the years

And we're the ones called remoaners!

 

[pb21]

Interestingly two cabinet Remainers now say they would vote Leave because the predicted immediate post referendum crash never happened...

Who seriously believed it would?!

We have MPs in the cabinet who believed that, and they are running the country and possibly involved with Brexit negotiations, heaven help us!

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

http://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...ond-Brexit-flights-European-Union-UK-airlines

More good news from the anti brexit paper......

 

[beorhthelm]

Correct. And you don't expect to get Sky tv. I.e. Have cake and eat it as per Brexit. We can't leave and expect the benefits - which is a little porky we were told isn't it. The sky analogy is used by remainers who make it basic like the relationship example.

the only people who keep saying this is the remainers. the leavers didnt say we could leave and expect the benefits, they accepted that leaving meant giving up benefits. the argument goes that there are benefits of not being a member that may outweigh the being a member. we would leave and negotiate some of the benefits, on mutually beneficial grounds.

Unless you are locked into a contract and then have to pay to be released from it

exactly, payout the remaining contract. not paying for movie channel we didnt subscribe to or UHD channels in the future.

 

[beorhthelm]

Whoever put this site together, fair play to them

24 years of anti-EU propaganda from Daker, Desmond, Murdoch and the Barclay brothers. Staggering the crap they've written over the years

whilst the tabloids certianly put their spin and stretch half truth, theres a deeper truth shown there. i've scan a half dozen and in each case there was a European directive, EU working paper or some such in the origin. we see what want of course, to me that list is indicative of core of the problem of the European project, the attempt to impose some buracracy on every facet of life.
(since read a few more and to be fair there is also some completely made up nonsense too)

 

[CHAPPERS]

How long is it that we have to sort this shit out?

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...y-inform-wto-of-post-brexit-tariff-quota-plan

Britain and the EU have formally informed members of the World Trade Organisation how they plan to split up the EU’s tariff quotas and farm subsidies after Brexit in a plan already rejected by the White House.

In a joint letter, the two parties, who are involved in intense negotiations over Britain’s departure from the EU, said they had come to an agreement on a key aspect of trading relationships with the rest of the world after Brexit.

Under WTO rules, country-specific quotas permit low-tariff imports, such as butter and meat, up to a certain volume, after which higher tariffs can be applied. The joint plan suggests the EU’s existing agricultural quota commitments will be “apportioned” based on historical trade flows, and the current ceilings on support for farmers will be maintained.

After a leak of the letter this month, however, the UK has been told that the arrangement is unacceptable to the US and other WTO members who wish to force the UK to open its market further to their farm products.

The UK’s international trade secretary, Liam Fox, said in a statement to coincide with the joint letter: “Our agreed collaborative approach shows real progress on how UK government intends to take forward our future trading arrangements with the world.

“To ensure a smooth transition which minimises disruption to our trading relationships with other WTO members, the UK intends to replicate as far as possible its obligations under the current commitments of the EU.


“This is the start of our open and constructive engagement with the WTO membership and sets out our intentions regarding EU quotas to forge ahead and establish the UK as an independent WTO member.”

The White House and others say the method the UK and the EU propose is unfair, because it would allow them to reduce their obligations as WTO members.

“Such an outcome would not be consistent with the principle of leaving other [WTO] members no worse off, nor fully honour the existing TRQ access commitments. Thus, we cannot accept such an agreement,” the countries wrote in a letter published in response to the leak.

The UK was a founding member of the WTO, but its membership obligations have been managed by the EU until now.