[Politics] Brexit

[DavidinSouthampton]

And here's a quick question:
What do you get if you allow Amazon to operate from your country while evading paying hundreds of millions of Euros in taxes?

Answer: You get to become president of the European Commission.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41484025

Nice work if you can get it and yet another reason why I want out of this den of thieves and chancers.

I think the biggest den of thieves and chancers at the moment is the Conservative Party. ..............
........ I'm almost beginning to feel sorry for Theresa May - almost.

 

[Baldseagull]

I wonder if anyone - even the most ardent EU lover - will ever believe this will happen. There are too many vested interests to allow it. In this nest of crooks everyone has their noses in the trough but also is looking out for themselves (difficult, I know, but it happens).

It will happen, may happen faster without us than it would have done with. If as much power as is possible sits as locally as possible, and the power at the top is only in those areas best managed centrally, people across Europe will want it.

 

[Baldseagull]

Brexiteers, like the Captain of the Titanic, think their ship is unsinkable, and the disillusionment will be harsh.

 

[Baldseagull]

Catastrophic for their careers not for this country, but yes a backwards step and not at all ideal.

I would have no tariffs if it was up to me, why set up barriers to trade? But what you say about us not being able to set our own tariffs isn't true, we could set our own tariffs and requirements for the import of goods. The EU does it's trade arrangements through the WTO as a bloc, by convention, but we are members of the WTO in our own right. The WTO is really just a forum for bilateral negotiations, which is basically how our trade arrangements will be conducted after we leave the EU.

OK, no tariffs unilaterally, have a think on that and see if you can see the problem for yourself.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Why not just Google it yourself Tory boy? - https://nolanjazimreg.wordpress.com/2017/05/22/tories-gruesome-brexit-deception/

Tinfoiltastic ... even the BBC was in on this fiendish conspiracy

 

[ManOfSussex]

Tinfoiltastic ... even the BBC was in on this fiendish conspiracy

I even read in The Times too. Phillip Collins stated in one of his columns months back that during the 2020's when we have a Brexit inquiry it will be a question to the accused. I even read it being suggested in the Irish press as well, but then they're the worlds leading experts and observers on the upper class idiocy of the British Conservative and Unionist party.

 

[Buzzer]

OK I accept that as a reasonable point. But these same less educated people are likely to be the ones who suffer most in a post-Brexit Britain when all those fantasy trade deals with the rest of the world fail to materialise, the economy falters, and the Tories are unhindered by EU law to really put the boot into workers rights and social care.

The people who voted in the referendum are the same ones who vote in local and general elections. I do find it strange that no-one has ever questioned voter intelligence in any other vote. It's snobbishness of the highest order perpetuated by a group of people who, having lost the vote, feel the need to denigrate those who voted otherwise with these nasty character assassinations. And the subtle implication of course is that "thick" people shouldn't get a vote unless they vote the way the "clever" people want them to.

 

[ManOfSussex]

The people who voted in the referendum are the same ones who vote in local and general elections. I do find it strange that no-one has ever questioned voter intelligence in any other vote. It's snobbishness of the highest order perpetuated by a group of people who, having lost the vote, feel the need to denigrate those who voted otherwise with these nasty character assassinations. And the subtle implication of course is that "thick" people shouldn't get a vote unless they vote the way the "clever" people want them to.

Apart from the 2.8 million who voted in the referendum who don't normally vote in local and general elections.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

I even read in The Times too. Phillip Collins stated in one of his columns months back that during the 2020's when we have a Brexit inquiry it will be a question to the accused. I even read it being suggested in the Irish press as well, but then they're the worlds leading experts and observers on the upper class idiocy of the British Conservative and Unionist party.

I prefer the referendum was agreed to try to head off rising support for UKIP and finally attempt to settle the division in the party argument as it's almost certainly true. 'They didn't think they would get a majority in 2015 so could bin it off in a coalition point' is also probably valid.

 

[Buzzer]

Apart from the 2.8 million who voted in the referendum who don't normally vote in local and general elections.

"Don't usually" implies that they sometimes do so my point still stands, thankyou. You'll have to point me in the direction of a local or general election where voter intelligence has been scrutinised to the same level as Brexit.

 

[ManOfSussex]

I prefer the referendum was agreed to try to head off rising support of UKIP and finally attempt to settle the division in the party argument as it's almost certainly true. 'They didn't think they would get a majority in 2015 so could bin it off in a coalition point' is also probably valid.

I know you prefer that, but you would though wouldn't you? I think we'll leave this discussion here now which resulted from comments made between me and other non Brexit ideologue believers unlike yourself.

(Since you are here though, I must say I haven't laughed so much at TV since the last series of Alan Partridge on Sky Atlantic - Sky News was comedy gold with what it was showing from Manchester yesterday, even Kay Burley was funny - and I can't stand Kay Burley- it was that bad for The Tories )

 

[ManOfSussex]

"Don't usually" implies that they sometimes do so my point still stands, thankyou. You'll have to point me in the direction of a local or general election where voter intelligence has been scrutinised to the same level as Brexit.

Some reports were that many or all of that 'don't usually' were 'don't at all' depending on the source and analysis of it.

I agree with you on the scrutiny of voter intelligence in the referendum - there hasn't been - but the vote was unprecedented and was so divisive - but then nobody voting in it was properly qualified to make the binary choice to a final detestation none of us know will be like in my opinion, but that's another discussion entirely which has been done to death.

 

[chaileyjem]

Most Palace fans are Remainers, poll shows ... most Sussex residents are leavers the referendum showed. (I think that's how it's done)

It was 50:49 in favour of Leave in Sussex. 69: 31 in favour of Remain in Brighton and Hove.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

It was 50:49 in favour of Leave in Sussex. 69: 31 in favour of Remain in Brighton and Hove.

Yep a majority voted to leave in Sussex but Brighton and Hove was a Remain stronghold

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

I know you won the vote, but something tells me you won't get what you voted for. Its a bit like a referendum on getting a bigger cock. You may vote 'yes please', but.....

Now that is a great turn of phrase

...just wiping the tea off my keyboard...

 

[Buzzer]

Some reports were that many or all of that 'don't usually' were 'don't at all' depending on the source and analysis of it.

I agree with you on the scrutiny of voter intelligence in the referendum - there hasn't been - but the vote was unprecedented and was so divisive - but then nobody voting in it was properly qualified to make the binary choice to a final detestation none of us know will be like in my opinion, but that's another discussion entirely which has been done to death.

I thought you might well amend your comment after I pointed that out. You didn't disappoint.

Regards your second point, no-one questioned the lack of information when we voted to join the EEC in the 70s. No-one questions the lack of information available when we vote in local and general elections. I think it's a canard to say that the electorate were unqualified to make a decision because there are many reasons for leaving or remaining and most of them unprovable at the time of the referendum and each of us weights those reasons differently. Every election of any type plunges the voter into unknown territory and yes, this was a big vote with huge implications but if you feel that you can't trust democracy and have so little respect for it when the will of the people is at odds with your own views then you might as well do away with all Parliament and MPs and institute a technocracy where a ruling class impose what they want and what is good for them onto the subjugated masses.

Perversely, this is how I view the EU has worked for at least the last 30 years and one of the main reasons why I voted to leave.

 

[chaileyjem]

It was 50:49 in favour of Leave in Sussex. 69: 31 in favour of Remain in Brighton and Hove.

So actually the poll isn't that much of a surprise however robust in its methodology.

(it was a fairly standard anonymous 5000 sample poll)

 

[Questions]

Only a certain type of person is interested in answering a poll - which is why they have proved to be bollox

Is correct. They did a poll to prove that point.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Ever thought that might be because they're most affected ? In the competition for social housing, other resources like healthcare etc and more importantly wage compression ? Or are you just going to stick to your view that they voted out because they're too thick to realise the benefits that large scale immigration from the accession countries has brought to erm, the middle classes who want cheap builders , nannies , car washers and people to hand out free newspapers and magazines.

Oh, I absolutely think that if these things were going to be addressed then there's a good chance that I would have voted leave - and I think that thats possibly where an understanding / awareness / education gap comes in (whatever you want to call it) - between people who believed this was possible, and people who wanted it but knew it wasn't a priority of the government, wasn't going to happen, and was likely a smokescreen by many leading brexit figures. But I know how pissed off many people are with immigration, have experienced being pissed off myself, don't like the way its been handled and would like it tackled. Brexit never felt like the answer to me.

To me it felt obvious before the vote, and even more obvious now, that reducing immigration was never going to be addressed, is not being addressed and that Brexit is more about ensuring that (i) Britain favours big business by un-encumbering ourselves from EU regulations on the environment, workers rights and so on, and (ii) enabling greater tax cuts and tax breaks for businesses (necessary in a post-Brexit world) by not having to send the EU any more money, (essentially turning the benefits we got, like development funding in the regions, university funding, grants for energy schemes and so on, into tax cuts), or (iii), on behalf of the likes of Skinner, an essential stage in turning Britain into a socialist republic.

Immigration will continue to rise, because big business wants a large supply of cheap labour, and we have our hands open pleading for big business to come to Britain. I don't feel like I can change that at all, and I think that Brexit will only make it worse

 

[HH Brighton]

No surprise it's 81%, seems to reflect the people I choose to socialise and work with. Still astonished that we voted leave but in my Sussex and London bubble perhaps my view is distorted. Unfortunately older people and the less well educated managed to tip it in there favour. Many regret it now of course but not many will admit it. I'm currently sitting here in Amsterdam business district watching the construction of office after office ready for the influx from some London based Financial companies.