[Politics] Brexit

[Pretty pink fairy]

Are you bored with this thread going round in circles, I am.

IT'S LIKE A GAME OF MUSICAL CHAIRS , there's only one winner and that's BREXIT
regards
DR

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Well http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/15573687.Most_Albion_fans_are_Remainers__poll_shows/?ref=mr&lp=20

did they all cry when they lost the vote
regards
DR

 

[BUTTERBALL]

The only remaining of interest to me is that of Albion remaining in the Premier League

Fck sports and politics, they don't mix.

 

[sir albion]

Of course you'll get story's of remainers saying they know people who regret their vote....well that old chestnut never ends and to be fair it's irrelevant.Its no surprise many feel they've made a mistake when you have idiots taking their time with negotiations and going against the will of the people week after week.
You have remainers desperately trying to jeopardise the process by delaying the process and you have weak politicians crumbling like little girls trying to please the Brussels idiots.

Everybody needs to get some backbone and move in the direction of brexit because all this shite is just feeding the EU more ammunition....This massively includes the many thousands of politicians who're trying to further their own careers by going against brexit !!!
I would sack any politician who stands against brexit as we've had the vote and it's old news....it's the brexit way or the highway end of story.

 

[oneillco]

Why is it wrong to keep bringing up voter intelligence? For the very reasons I mentioned that you ignored: why all of a sudden is it now a problem specifically for the Brexit vote but not for general elections? Why are these polls being commissioned? We both know it's because Remainers are using it as a weapon to beat the people they disagree with. It makes you feel better, it also stops you from having to engage with other people's opinions. We get it.

Ah. And you mentioned the Daily Mail. The root cause of every ill. You're wrong actually. The Daily Mail backed Remain. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/a...fer-freer-prosperous-yes-GREATER-Britain.html

Also worth noting that the Remain campaign had their own backers stoking people's fears too (apart from the Daily Mail of course) https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/05/chief-economist-of-bank-of-england-admits-errors and every bit as vociferous in their support of Remain as the Brexit camp.

Errr...you're wrong actually. Daily Mail front page banner headline June 22nd 2016 (the date before the referendum) "IF YOU BELIEVE IN BRITAIN VOTE LEAVE".
As for the Guardian, it isn't mass circulation and it isn't read by the less-educated nor aimed at the old.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Ah. And you mentioned the Daily Mail. The root cause of every ill. You're wrong actually. The Daily Mail backed Remain. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/a...fer-freer-prosperous-yes-GREATER-Britain.html

The Mail on Sunday (Geordie Greig) backed remain, The Daily Mail (Paul Dacre) backed leave.

 

[Buzzer]

Errr...you're wrong actually. Daily Mail front page banner headline June 22nd 2016 (the date before the referendum) "IF YOU BELIEVE IN BRITAIN VOTE LEAVE".
As for the Guardian, it isn't mass circulation and it isn't read by the less-educated nor aimed at the old.

The Mail on Sunday (Geordie Greig) backed remain, The Daily Mail (Paul Dacre) backed leave.

Okay thanks for the correction but it does then raise big questions around your claim that the newspapers are heavily responsible for how people vote. Presumably most people who get the DM also read the Mail on Sunday and their readership figures are pretty comparable (1.3m v 1.5m), so are you suggesting that they would be leavers Mon-Sat and Remain on Sundays? And looking at those readership numbers and add the Express and Sun and you still won't get anywhere near the 17m+ Brexit voters. Maybe, just maybe your blaming it on the newspapers you don't like isn't the answer to why people voted as they did.

The Guardian not aimed at mass circulation though? Really? Oh, and the Mail is aimed at women and not necessarily old ones at that. I've still not got an answer as to why voter intelligence has never been an issue for you in previous general elections either.

 

[pastafarian]

Why is it wrong to keep bringing up voter intelligence? For the very reasons I mentioned that you ignored: why all of a sudden is it now a problem specifically for the Brexit vote but not for general elections? Why are these polls being commissioned? We both know it's because Remainers are using it as a weapon to beat the people they disagree with. It makes you feel better, it also stops you from having to engage with other people's opinions. We get it.
.

Have no real problem with the actual commissioning of said polls, if you are in politics I would assume its useful to have as much information as possible of who voted what way for future reference to see which type of audience you are connecting with or not. Saying that though this is where the relationship with the data should end, you are quite right in saying that it is being used as a weapon to beat leavers(they cant help themselves). This is an abuse of the information though as a vote is equal no matter what your educational upbringing, colour, religious background, shoe size or age. So what? Some might say. Well this abuse leads to extreme undemocratic calls from people like Nick Clegg who say the vote of a young person should in future count double, or the poster on the Brexit thread (who wasn’t joking) saying you should only be allowed to vote if you had a certain level of intelligence.
If anyone cant see a problem with those train of thoughts I imagine they are the ones using the data the most as a stick to beat.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

So you have evidence of the Tories allowing multi-nationals to setup in business here and receive illegal tax treatment? If you have then I suggest that you inform Mr Juncker immediately. He would love the chance to distract attention from himself and his country. I look forward to reading about it.

When I made that comment, I was not referring at all to the conversation that had gone before. I should have been more precise. I was referring to the manipulating, back-stabbing, self-preservation, self-promotion, deception-ridden farce going on at the moment which purports to be the Conservative Party.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Of course you'll get story's of remainers saying they know people who regret their vote....well that old chestnut never ends and to be fair it's irrelevant.Its no surprise many feel they've made a mistake when you have idiots taking their time with negotiations and going against the will of the people week after week.
You have remainers desperately trying to jeopardise the process by delaying the process and you have weak politicians crumbling like little girls trying to please the Brussels idiots.

Everybody needs to get some backbone and move in the direction of brexit because all this shite is just feeding the EU more ammunition....This massively includes the many thousands of politicians who're trying to further their own careers by going against brexit !!!
I would sack any politician who stands against brexit as we've had the vote and it's old news....it's the brexit way or the highway end of story.

another spot on post sir albion
regards
DR

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Have no real problem with the actual commissioning of said polls, if you are in politics I would assume its useful to have as much information as possible of who voted what way for future reference to see which type of audience you are connecting with or not. Saying that though this is where the relationship with the data should end, you are quite right in saying that it is being used as a weapon to beat leavers(they cant help themselves). This is an abuse of the information though as a vote is equal no matter what your educational upbringing, colour, religious background, shoe size or age. So what? Some might say. Well this abuse leads to extreme undemocratic calls from people like Nick Clegg who say the vote of a young person should in future count double, or the poster on the Brexit thread (who wasn’t joking) saying you should only be allowed to vote if you had a certain level of intelligence.
If anyone cant see a problem with those train of thoughts I imagine they are the ones using the data the most as a stick to beat.

Nick Clegg , that name seems to ring a bell
regards
DR

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

I would sack any politician who stands against brexit as we've had the vote and it's old news.

Bloody freedom of speech

 

[pastafarian]

The one thing that would change their electoral fortunes almost immediately would be to become the party which fights to remain in the EU..

You are correct for once, If the Tories fought to ignore the democratic vote and instead fought to remain in the EU against the will of the majority that voted to leave their electoral fortunes would indeed change immediately. They would be a completely unelectable toxic brand, they could kiss goodbye to ever holding office again. Nearly 60% of conservative voters voted to leave, they would abandon the Tories overnight as would those floating voters from all the other parties that voted leave as well, any chance of regaining their vote would be lost.
Fortunately both main serious parties realise this and are NOT fighting to remain in The European Union, which leaves you with Vince Cable and the liberal party as the go to place if you want the vote overturned and ignored before it is implemented……..good luck with that.

Eventually - perhaps in 5 years' time - they will come to their senses, purge the party of the idealistic right-wing xenophobes, .

What will happen to all the liberal,left wing and socialist xenophobes that voted to Leave as well, will they be purged from their parties?

Yesterday (May's speech) was another small part of the "blow up".

There was me thinking she just had a cough, funny how people grab at any straw and read something that isn’t there to back up their desperation.

 

[Jim D]

When I made that comment, I was not referring at all to the conversation that had gone before. I should have been more precise. I was referring to the manipulating, back-stabbing, self-preservation, self-promotion, deception-ridden farce going on at the moment which purports to be the Conservative Party.

Crikey, can you say that with a straight face given what Labour has been doing over the last 2 years?

 

[Hampster Gull]

From the BBC website

"German companies with a presence in the UK should be planning for a "very hard Brexit", Germany's biggest industry body has warned.

German industry looked "with concern" at the progress of the Brexit talks, said the boss of the Federation of German Industries (BDI), Joachim Lang.

Britain "is lacking a clear concept despite talking a lot," he added."

I suspect he has been looking at this thread re last statement

 

[Jim D]

From the BBC website

"German companies with a presence in the UK should be planning for a "very hard Brexit", Germany's biggest industry body has warned.

German industry looked "with concern" at the progress of the Brexit talks, said the boss of the Federation of German Industries (BDI), Joachim Lang.

Britain "is lacking a clear concept despite talking a lot," he added."

I suspect he has been looking at this thread re last statement

I doubt that but I would say that this 'clear concept' is more to do with the lack of any clarity from the EU regarding how they have come up with the calculations for the exit bill. It seems to me that it is a wish list of how much money they need and, with nobody else prepared to fork out, they're looking at us to pay it. Good luck with that.

 

[ManOfSussex]

I doubt that but I would say that this 'clear concept' is more to do with the lack of any clarity from the EU regarding how they have come up with the calculations for the exit bill. It seems to me that it is a wish list of how much money they need and, with nobody else prepared to fork out, they're looking at us to pay it. Good luck with that.

No mention of any EU exit bill in regards to the 'lacking clear concept' in the Reuters article on this either - http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-br...iff-brexit-german-industry-says-idUKKBN1CA0KV

Dampening hopes among some Brexiteers that London could succeed in driving a wedge between governments and companies in other European countries, Lang said German industry fully backed the EU’s negotiation strategy.

“To make it clear: Yes, German industry wants to keep a very close relationship with Britain. But have no doubt: We prioritise the further development of the EU,” Lang said.

“The ball now lies in Britain’s court. The speech by the British prime minister in Florence two weeks ago by no means brought the clarity that had been hoped for,” Lang said, referring to May’s attempt to speed up negotiations.

Personally I'm surprised, because I can clearly recall Owen Patterson saying on Sky News there would be a deal because German industry would demand one.

 

[Hampster Gull]

I doubt that but I would say that this 'clear concept' is more to do with the lack of any clarity from the EU regarding how they have come up with the calculations for the exit bill. It seems to me that it is a wish list of how much money they need and, with nobody else prepared to fork out, they're looking at us to pay it. Good luck with that.

Interesting point, one that many on here share. But for sure, 100% we are paying an exit bill, and for sure it will be large. And it's becoming more and more clear that we are not in the driving seat in this negotiations despite the bluster in the early days and if we are honest the tories, the Labour Party and the country are all divided on what the next step is best let along the end state. Shocking that the tories have done this to the country, and they are suffering as a consequence

 

[Gabbafella]

Yeah all this debate about the future of this country and what the future will hold for our children is a real drag...

I've had a vasectomy, I couldn't care less about kids either.

 

[Jim D]

I doubt that but I would say that this 'clear concept' is more to do with the lack of any clarity from the EU regarding how they have come up with the calculations for the exit bill. It seems to me that it is a wish list of how much money they need and, with nobody else prepared to fork out, they're looking at us to pay it. Good luck with that.

No mention of any EU exit bill in regards to the 'lacking clear concept' in the Reuters article on this either - http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-br...iff-brexit-german-industry-says-idUKKBN1CA0KV



Personally I'm surprised, because I can clearly recall Owen Patterson saying on Sky News there would be a deal because German industry would demand one.

Replying to my post: As far as I can see the problem with moving forward with Brexit is that we can't see what it is that the EU is asking for. Their demands are completely random, with no itemisation and no suggestions on what we would receive as a result of settlement. And yet they expect us to agree to it. Would you, for example, pay someone £100 for 'what's in my pocket'?