[Politics] Brexit

[dingodan]

OK, no tariffs unilaterally, have a think on that and see if you can see the problem for yourself.

Poorer people not having to pay more than neccessary for a product?

If we are buying a product from overseas at the expence of manufacturers in this country, why? Do tariffs solve the problem? No. If we can't make as good a product or we can't compete on price, there is good information there, we should probably make what we are making better, or make something else. To think that making a product more expensive for everyone is good economics we are fooling ourselves. There is maybe one set of circumstances which are difficult, like China dumping it's steel, because perhaps when they raise the price we will need our own again, but in general it's better economics to have people pay the best prices for goods (anything else hurts the poorest in society), and if neccessary adapt and improve our own sectors so as to either compete with or complement those competitive goods from overseas.

Protectionism and trade wars are generally not good policies, and hurt the poorest in society. They also discourage an innovative, adaptative and flexable economy.

 

[Jim D]

Work is ongoing in this area in the EU, if only certain members were not so concerned with allowing the EU to set some tax rates, we could maybe already have had it in place.

Work is ongoing? What work and where? All I'm seeing is Ireland firmly in agreement with Apple that nothing illegal was done. As for Luxembourg, they've been allowing this sort of thing for years and nothing even gets reported. Just as turkeys won't vote for Christmas the pigs won't vote for the removal of the trough.

 

[Jim D]

I think the biggest den of thieves and chancers at the moment is the Conservative Party. ..............
........ I'm almost beginning to feel sorry for Theresa May - almost.

So you have evidence of the Tories allowing multi-nationals to setup in business here and receive illegal tax treatment? If you have then I suggest that you inform Mr Juncker immediately. He would love the chance to distract attention from himself and his country. I look forward to reading about it.

 

[Jim D]

It will happen, may happen faster without us than it would have done with. If as much power as is possible sits as locally as possible, and the power at the top is only in those areas best managed centrally, people across Europe will want it.

I really can't see that happening - the EU just wants to sweep everything under the carpet in case they have light shone on them. The people may want it to happen but those at the top will never allow it. Why would they?

 

[Gabbafella]

I didn't vote either way and I still don't care either way, but it's about time people stopped pissing and moaning about it. The decisions been made, get over it FFS.

 

[melias shoes]

And I know hundreds who voted to leave and now want to remain. Jesus.

He won't help you.

 

[ManOfSussex]

I thought you might well amend your comment after I pointed that out. You didn't disappoint.

Regards your second point, no-one questioned the lack of information when we voted to join the EEC in the 70s. No-one questions the lack of information available when we vote in local and general elections. I think it's a canard to say that the electorate were unqualified to make a decision because there are many reasons for leaving or remaining and most of them unprovable at the time of the referendum and each of us weights those reasons differently. Every election of any type plunges the voter into unknown territory and yes, this was a big vote with huge implications but if you feel that you can't trust democracy and have so little respect for it when the will of the people is at odds with your own views then you might as well do away with all Parliament and MPs and institute a technocracy where a ruling class impose what they want and what is good for them onto the subjugated masses.

Perversely, this is how I view the EU has worked for at least the last 30 years and one of the main reasons why I voted to leave.

Yes, and I knew you'd come back disagreeing with me and you didn't disappoint there either.

I'm going to leave this discussion here though, because there's more chance of me sleeping with Beyonce tonight than you and I agreeing on something in regards to politics and Brexit. It's a bit like Crystal Palace if you like - pointless.

 

[Jim in the West]

It's interesting that the Tory party has more or less imploded since Cameron decided he required a EU referendum to gain control of the party. They are a complete and utter mess. They are reminding me of the Labour Party in the 80's. It is going to take years for them to rebuild confidence within the electorate

I think it will take generations. Their support is dying off (literally). They have already identified the solution - namely, appeal to the younger voter (i.e., anyone under 45). The one thing that would change their electoral fortunes almost immediately would be to become the party which fights to remain in the EU. But that won't happen whilst the likes of Gove, May, BoJo, Fox, etc are in charge. Eventually - perhaps in 5 years' time - they will come to their senses, purge the party of the idealistic right-wing xenophobes, and try to reconnect with the young, more liberal element of society. The transformation will take a helluva long time, but with a younger leader, new policies, etc, it CAN happen. But it has to blow up before change can occur. Yesterday (May's speech) was another small part of the "blow up".

 

[Buzzer]

Yes, and I knew you'd come back disagreeing with me and you didn't disappoint there either.

I'm going to leave this discussion here though, because there's more chance of me sleeping with Beyonce tonight than you and I agreeing on something in regards to politics and Brexit. It's a bit like Crystal Palace if you like - pointless.

That's fair enough but next time can I ask that you get your own material rather than copy and paste my reply.

 

[oneillco]

I didn't vote either way and I still don't care either way, but it's about time people stopped pissing and moaning about it. The decisions been made, get over it FFS.

Yeah all this debate about the future of this country and what the future will hold for our children is a real drag...

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Tick tock , tick tock ,tick tock
regards
DR

 

[oneillco]

The people who voted in the referendum are the same ones who vote in local and general elections. I do find it strange that no-one has ever questioned voter intelligence in any other vote. It's snobbishness of the highest order perpetuated by a group of people who, having lost the vote, feel the need to denigrate those who voted otherwise with these nasty character assassinations. And the subtle implication of course is that "thick" people shouldn't get a vote unless they vote the way the "clever" people want them to.

Why is it character assassination to quote research which shows that leave voters are typically less educationally qualified and older? Is it unfair to say that the Sun is aimed at less well educated people, and that the Mail and Express at older people? Those three newspapers backed Brexit to the hilt and stoked their readers fears.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

brexit was a northern thing anyway

bollocks
regards
DR

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Brexiteers, like the Captain of the Titanic, think their ship is unsinkable, and the disillusionment will be harsh.

what a deluded comment
regards
DR

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

PDF]migrant smuggling networks - Europol
https://www.europol.europa.eu/sites/default/.../ep-ip_report_executive_summary.pdf
of complex and ruthless migrant smuggling networks. Intelligence held at Europol indicates that more than. 90% of all migrants reaching the European Union ...
regards
DR

 

[Deleted member 22389]

I think it will take generations. Their support is dying off (literally). They have already identified the solution - namely, appeal to the younger voter (i.e., anyone under 45). The one thing that would change their electoral fortunes almost immediately would be to become the party which fights to remain in the EU. But that won't happen whilst the likes of Gove, May, BoJo, Fox, etc are in charge. Eventually - perhaps in 5 years' time - they will come to their senses, purge the party of the idealistic right-wing xenophobes, and try to reconnect with the young, more liberal element of society. The transformation will take a helluva long time, but with a younger leader, new policies, etc, it CAN happen. But it has to blow up before change can occur. Yesterday (May's speech) was another small part of the "blow up".

You remainers keep insulting leavers. It's so boring.

 

[5ways]

You remainers keep insulting leavers. It's so boring.

Wasn't this just the Cameron wing of the party?

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Wasn't this just the Cameron wing of the party?

Are you bored with this thread going round in circles, I am.

 

[Berty23]

One day it will stop going in circles. More positive economic news ahead. Good old project fear. https://amp.ft.com/content/768843e8-a839-11e7-93c5-648314d2c72c

 

[Buzzer]

Why is it character assassination to quote research which shows that leave voters are typically less educationally qualified and older? Is it unfair to say that the Sun is aimed at less well educated people, and that the Mail and Express at older people? Those three newspapers backed Brexit to the hilt and stoked their readers fears.

Why is it wrong to keep bringing up voter intelligence? For the very reasons I mentioned that you ignored: why all of a sudden is it now a problem specifically for the Brexit vote but not for general elections? Why are these polls being commissioned? We both know it's because Remainers are using it as a weapon to beat the people they disagree with. It makes you feel better, it also stops you from having to engage with other people's opinions. We get it.

Ah. And you mentioned the Daily Mail. The root cause of every ill. You're wrong actually. The Daily Mail backed Remain. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/a...fer-freer-prosperous-yes-GREATER-Britain.html

Also worth noting that the Remain campaign had their own backers stoking people's fears too (apart from the Daily Mail of course) https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/05/chief-economist-of-bank-of-england-admits-errors and every bit as vociferous in their support of Remain as the Brexit camp.