gordonchas
New member
- Jul 1, 2012
- 230
Despite the early morning tiredness of the poster above (equally, yawn) you are, of course, entirely right.
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[Politics] Brexit
- Thread starter KingstonSeagull
- Start date
Despite the early morning tiredness of the poster above (equally, yawn) you are, of course, entirely right.
gordonchas
New member
- Jul 1, 2012
- 230
Except I don't think how this is being portrayed is actually the (in limbo) Spanish government's position. To quote the newspaper El Pais:
"Gone are the days when former Spanish Foreign Minister José Manuel García Margallo boasted that “the Spanish flag will fly [in Gibraltar] much sooner than [Chief Minister] Fabian Picardo thinks.” Nor is there any more talk of co-sovereignty – one of the options defended by Spain in the past.
Instead, Spanish politicians are now trying to make the most of what they see as a historic opportunity afforded by Brexit. As a British overseas territory, The Rock will leave the EU when Britain does, even though 95% of Gibraltarians voted to remain at the referendum last year.
Maybe you could have just yawned in private and not bothered to type a response. Less tiring for you
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Yawn
I suppose I'd better get up now.
What cards do we have over the EU?
Australia, one of the countries muted:
Australia's minister for foreign affairs, Julie Bishop says it's her government's priority to focus on a trade agreement with the EU, and expressed concerns about the current tide of economic nationalism taking hold in certain parts of the world.
So where in the line are the UK?
It's in all our interests as long as we get a deal....
If it was a threat or not it has been taken that way, and didn't need to be mentioned
I think when it comes to threats, Jumped up and his unelected gang take the biscuit.
GoldWithFalmer
Seaweed! Seaweed!
If Germany was doing the Brexit thing and we were left with France Italy and the rest,what chance would we have of making the EU work going forward,they (EU) are compelled to make a sensible deal with us for their own good.
vegster
Sanity Clause
- May 5, 2008
- 28,273
No worse than Mrs May's veiled threats on security cooperation and becoming an offshore low tax haven. Oh, unless we get full access to the free market without free migration.
biddles911
New member
- May 12, 2014
- 348
Badly written letter all round in my view.
There should be no room for ambiguities in a letter like this and the grammar is pretty poor too. Looks like it was written by a fourth former still getting to grips with formal writing!
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And how the hell could they forget to mention Gibraltar?
Its an obvious trait that the Remainers seem totally unable to formulate the UK's worth, to the point that some on here seem to be on the cusp of being 'anti' UK.
[MENTION=11928]vegster[/MENTION] is a prime example, he somehow expects, accepts even demands that the EU use its power to effect our own negotiating positions, whilst when he might sense some UK brinkmanship he is the first to demean its effectiveness and worth.
[MENTION=11928]vegster[/MENTION] is a prime example, he somehow expects, accepts even demands that the EU use its power to effect our own negotiating positions, whilst when he might sense some UK brinkmanship he is the first to demean its effectiveness and worth.
JC Footy Genius
Bringer of TRUTH
- Jun 9, 2015
- 10,568
Brexit doom-mongers are holding us all back
Europhiles need to stop looking down on Leave voters with snobbish disgust and start living in the real world
'This winter, weather-forecasting has grown ever more hyperbolic. Stormageddon! Thundersnow! This strange new naming of storms so they sound like devastating tropical typhoons. Yet people quickly deduced that Angus or Doris were nothing extraordinary, zipped up their cagoules and carried on.
Likewise predictions about Brexit are increasingly terrifying. Cliff-edge, precipice, history going backwards, calamity, tragedy, doom . . . But here it seems the forecasters actually want the worst to happen. One arch-Remainer told me he hoped for a Marine Le Pen victory, Scotland to leave, hyper-inflation, a small European war . . .
Even in milder personalities, an enduring hurt at losing has fused into a burning desire to scream “I told you so!” Not just at a crowing Nigel Farage or preposterous Jacob Rees-Mogg or Boris Johnson blustering that everything will be fine, but at every fellow citizen who voted Leave.
Meanwhile the rest of Britain tries to distinguish between a squall and a hurricane, while preparing for both. Two stories struck me yesterday. First, the British hospitality industry plans a recruitment drive to attract British people into hotels and catering. Second, the government has launched Nurse First, a programme to fast-track bright graduates into the health service. So is this “Brexit crisis hits tourism and NHS” or “Jobs bonus for British NEETs”? (16.2 per cent of 16 to 24-year-olds are not in education or training.)
The truth is the Remainer left can only view this as doom. Even to care whether companies will train British kids or still rely on EU agency labour is racist or xenophobic. Why should it matter if your nurse comes from Sheffield or Sofia? But ordinary voters uninvested in Armageddon — whether Leave or Remain, Tory or Labour — will be pleased.
I say this with love, since I voted Remain and all my dearest friends are heartbroken Europhiles, but we must move on. Living in denial is neither psychologically healthy (so much impotent rage) nor politically useful. Article 50 has sailed. There will be no second referendum. We will not defeat Brexit. And, really, is using the unelected House of Lords to stymie a clear, democratic vote a good look? Enough. Because until the left’s referendum fissure is healed, there can be no opposition. Just Tory governments, getting ever more brazenly right wing, until the end of time. A moderate Labour MP says she has ceased meeting her regular group of like-minded colleagues: they no longer talk about opposing Tory policy or even deposing Jeremy Corbyn, they only bang on about Brexit.
Forming a Remainer party with Nick Clegg is a dinner party fantasy. Under our electoral system it can win no new MPs and will lose the north. Keir Starmer appears to be the sole shadow minister who understands that unless the 48 per cent can be reconciled with the 52, all is lost.
Yet even now I hear London liberals say how much they hate Leave voters, how Sunderland’s white-van man was so stupid he believed every tabloid lie. He’ll live to regret it, and serve him right. No matter that polls show Leavers have not changed their minds. More stupid still!
It is hard to bear if like me you are “Brexit non-binary”: my home town voted 69 per cent to Leave, my London borough 73 per cent to Remain. In Doncaster market I think “all you grans and mums and dads, you folk up at dawn running stalls, my London friends think you are too thick to vote”. These are the Somewheres that David Goodhart describes in his new book, whose identity is rooted in place: my friends are Anywheres, global citizens with portable identities. I’m stuck in between. I see equally why my friends want to live in a society like a swirling, shiny, exciting international airport terminal, and why Doncaster people recoil at the thought. I note that Remainers disdain Leavers for “clinging to the phantasm” of English culture and the British flag, while their European identity and starry banner are noble and real.
But both groups are largely Labour voters and reconciling them is the party’s only hope. I’m starting to wonder if it might take a truth and reconciliation commission. Or maybe a life-swap reality TV show. Because this one issue has destroyed the uneasy fealty that educated liberals felt with working-class communities, replacing it with a snobbish disgust they cannot get past.
Yet they must. That is not to say, as the negotiations progress, the left shouldn’t interrogate every atom of the Brexit deal. But in a meaningful way that seeks to protect workers and the environment, and the security of Britain’s EU residents. Not by setting up impossible targets, like Chuka Umunna demanding rights equivalent to single-market access, which he knows the EU will reject. It just makes Remainers look as slippery and didactic as the SNP.
I don’t actually believe that Labour is doomed for decades. Such is the yearning for an opposition and a repository for liberal ideas, it could flip upright like a canoe. I see it in my mind’s eye, with a leader as solid and serious as Theresa May — Sir Keir! — annotating the EU negotiations while talking once more about fixing the NHS and social care, training workers for a post-Brexit economy. The solid stuff on which Labour was always most trusted.
Yes, two small impediments: sweeping away that dust bunny of a Labour leader and the Remainers starting to accept that their prized cosmopolitan identity can transcend membership of the EU. The next few years are uncertain, frightening: who knows yet whether it will be doom or just fudge. But let’s not pretend every modest sprinkling is thundersnow.'
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/brexit-doom-mongers-are-holding-us-all-back-w9zh2vl58
She makes some interesting points. Will anyone take this sensible advice/analysis on board, though .....
Europhiles need to stop looking down on Leave voters with snobbish disgust and start living in the real world
'This winter, weather-forecasting has grown ever more hyperbolic. Stormageddon! Thundersnow! This strange new naming of storms so they sound like devastating tropical typhoons. Yet people quickly deduced that Angus or Doris were nothing extraordinary, zipped up their cagoules and carried on.
Likewise predictions about Brexit are increasingly terrifying. Cliff-edge, precipice, history going backwards, calamity, tragedy, doom . . . But here it seems the forecasters actually want the worst to happen. One arch-Remainer told me he hoped for a Marine Le Pen victory, Scotland to leave, hyper-inflation, a small European war . . .
Even in milder personalities, an enduring hurt at losing has fused into a burning desire to scream “I told you so!” Not just at a crowing Nigel Farage or preposterous Jacob Rees-Mogg or Boris Johnson blustering that everything will be fine, but at every fellow citizen who voted Leave.
Meanwhile the rest of Britain tries to distinguish between a squall and a hurricane, while preparing for both. Two stories struck me yesterday. First, the British hospitality industry plans a recruitment drive to attract British people into hotels and catering. Second, the government has launched Nurse First, a programme to fast-track bright graduates into the health service. So is this “Brexit crisis hits tourism and NHS” or “Jobs bonus for British NEETs”? (16.2 per cent of 16 to 24-year-olds are not in education or training.)
The truth is the Remainer left can only view this as doom. Even to care whether companies will train British kids or still rely on EU agency labour is racist or xenophobic. Why should it matter if your nurse comes from Sheffield or Sofia? But ordinary voters uninvested in Armageddon — whether Leave or Remain, Tory or Labour — will be pleased.
I say this with love, since I voted Remain and all my dearest friends are heartbroken Europhiles, but we must move on. Living in denial is neither psychologically healthy (so much impotent rage) nor politically useful. Article 50 has sailed. There will be no second referendum. We will not defeat Brexit. And, really, is using the unelected House of Lords to stymie a clear, democratic vote a good look? Enough. Because until the left’s referendum fissure is healed, there can be no opposition. Just Tory governments, getting ever more brazenly right wing, until the end of time. A moderate Labour MP says she has ceased meeting her regular group of like-minded colleagues: they no longer talk about opposing Tory policy or even deposing Jeremy Corbyn, they only bang on about Brexit.
Forming a Remainer party with Nick Clegg is a dinner party fantasy. Under our electoral system it can win no new MPs and will lose the north. Keir Starmer appears to be the sole shadow minister who understands that unless the 48 per cent can be reconciled with the 52, all is lost.
Yet even now I hear London liberals say how much they hate Leave voters, how Sunderland’s white-van man was so stupid he believed every tabloid lie. He’ll live to regret it, and serve him right. No matter that polls show Leavers have not changed their minds. More stupid still!
It is hard to bear if like me you are “Brexit non-binary”: my home town voted 69 per cent to Leave, my London borough 73 per cent to Remain. In Doncaster market I think “all you grans and mums and dads, you folk up at dawn running stalls, my London friends think you are too thick to vote”. These are the Somewheres that David Goodhart describes in his new book, whose identity is rooted in place: my friends are Anywheres, global citizens with portable identities. I’m stuck in between. I see equally why my friends want to live in a society like a swirling, shiny, exciting international airport terminal, and why Doncaster people recoil at the thought. I note that Remainers disdain Leavers for “clinging to the phantasm” of English culture and the British flag, while their European identity and starry banner are noble and real.
But both groups are largely Labour voters and reconciling them is the party’s only hope. I’m starting to wonder if it might take a truth and reconciliation commission. Or maybe a life-swap reality TV show. Because this one issue has destroyed the uneasy fealty that educated liberals felt with working-class communities, replacing it with a snobbish disgust they cannot get past.
Yet they must. That is not to say, as the negotiations progress, the left shouldn’t interrogate every atom of the Brexit deal. But in a meaningful way that seeks to protect workers and the environment, and the security of Britain’s EU residents. Not by setting up impossible targets, like Chuka Umunna demanding rights equivalent to single-market access, which he knows the EU will reject. It just makes Remainers look as slippery and didactic as the SNP.
I don’t actually believe that Labour is doomed for decades. Such is the yearning for an opposition and a repository for liberal ideas, it could flip upright like a canoe. I see it in my mind’s eye, with a leader as solid and serious as Theresa May — Sir Keir! — annotating the EU negotiations while talking once more about fixing the NHS and social care, training workers for a post-Brexit economy. The solid stuff on which Labour was always most trusted.
Yes, two small impediments: sweeping away that dust bunny of a Labour leader and the Remainers starting to accept that their prized cosmopolitan identity can transcend membership of the EU. The next few years are uncertain, frightening: who knows yet whether it will be doom or just fudge. But let’s not pretend every modest sprinkling is thundersnow.'
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/brexit-doom-mongers-are-holding-us-all-back-w9zh2vl58
She makes some interesting points. Will anyone take this sensible advice/analysis on board, though .....
cheshunt seagull
Well-known member
- Jul 5, 2003
- 2,595
None of the remainers I know want the worse to happen, they just see nothing that provides any re-assurance that it won't.
JC Footy Genius
Bringer of TRUTH
- Jun 9, 2015
- 10,568
That's encouraging. Are they really interested in looking for re-assurance?
Two Professors
Two Mad Professors
Typical EU hypocrisy over Gibraltar,wanting us to hand it over to Spain.Still wants to keep it's EU outposts in Morocco,Ceuta and Melilla,but that doesn't count.
The EU has just told May how the talks will be conducted. I guess her success in negotiating them back onto something resembling what she was planning will be an early indicator of the "UK's worth?"
At least the EU remembered Gibraltar.
East Preston Gull
New member
Financial services and capital to the EU, one of their biggest trade partners, we, are and have been the EU's go to army and Europe's main NATO funder, we have linked the EU to the commonwealth market, we have contributed the second biggest cash giveaway to the EU, opened up our utilities and infrastructure to European state funded corporates like no other country in Europe( except Greece which had it forced on it by German industry).
We are not a country like Portugal who would not offer anything and is a net taker. We, with Germany are the big beasts of Europe and will have some clout in negotiations. It is not Europe who holds the Aces.
The EU are like the krays twins, threaten you financially and for extortionate fee offer you protection from others and totally missing the fact that they are the real villians.
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