[Politics] Brexit

[Lincoln Imp]

As you point out the current regime is heading in the opposite direction in all these areas.

...as indeed it has been since before the referendum, as was repeatedly pointed out at the time. Can't imagine why Farage and the others didn't pick up on this.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

...as indeed it has been since before the referendum, as was repeatedly pointed out at the time. Can't imagine why Farage and the others didn't pick up on this.

All's fair in love and referendum campaigns ..

 

[Deleted member 22389]

I see that one company has filed for Administration yesterday, citing the sharp fall of the pound due to Brexit as the cause.

A possible RIP for:

The company was struggling for some time anyway. Companies come and go regardless of Brexit. It wouldn't have made the news If we voted remain and it still went out of business.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

So do I. Unlikely though considering their track record of continually ignoring or dismissing the warning signs.

Front National increasing support, Geert Wilders increasing support, close call in the Austrian presidential election, AfD, 5 Star Movement, Greece, Italy, Eurozone economic uncertainty etc etc. How bad does it have to get.

Yes some EU zealots are talking tough but I note the Heads of Government are making more conciliatory noises. I am still convinced economic concerns will override the politics.*

Gave up hoping for significant change a long time ago. The Cameron pre-referendum 'negotiations' being the final nail in the coffin.

The EU was either throwing Billions of Euro's at Turkey because they genuinely expected they would join at some point or hoped to encourage them to embrace western values also buy influence. As you point out the current regime is heading in the opposite direction in all these areas.

* Forgot the strategic imperative re Russia. If the EU really wants to punish the UK which has the most capable, professional military punch in Europe, vital member of NATO then they need to get that EU army up and running asap.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

The company was struggling for some time anyway. Companies come and go regardless of Brexit. It wouldn't have made the news If we voted remain and it still went out of business.

Of course companies come and go but yours isn't a brilliant argument - the owners were faced with additional costs as a result of the vote and these were enough to push a struggling company over the edge.

 

[glasfryn]

It's good we agree that one of the driving emotions behind the Leave vote was the view, as you put it, that these Euro types are ignoramuses who have forgotten that without us Brits saving their sorry backsides twice they would not even have been there.

On such emotions are the future of England being decided.

its just that we are a little better than them

we have manners
and why would they all want to come here otherwise

 

[Baldseagull]

* Forgot the strategic imperative re Russia. If the EU really wants to punish the UK which has the most capable, professional military punch in Europe, vital member of NATO then they need to get that EU army up and running asap.

I think defence concerns will be sorted regardless of the type of deal we do over economic relations.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

I think defence concerns will be sorted regardless of the type of deal we do over economic relations.

It will do no harm to remind any European politician wishing to put political posturing before economic self-interest that Trump is lukewarm on NATO and Putin seems hell-bent on triggering a new cold war.

 

[Danny-Boy]

It will do no harm to remind any European politician wishing to put political posturing before economic self-interest that Trump is lukewarm on NATO and Putin seems hell-bent on triggering a new cold war.

And who has his finger on the button in the USA? I take it Obama doesn't hand over the button-push until Inauguration. Scary.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

CNN: Brexit poll: Six months on, Brits stand by EU referendum decision. http://google.com/newsstand/s/CBIwycSAmzE

 

[portslade seagull]

CNN: Brexit poll: Six months on, Brits stand by EU referendum decision. http://google.com/newsstand/s/CBIwycSAmzE

Surely that is wrong. All we have been hearing from remain is a 2nd vote would give them victory

 

[studio150]

CNN: Brexit poll: Six months on, Brits stand by EU referendum decision. http://google.com/newsstand/s/CBIwycSAmzE

47% said they would vote leave in this poll. That really is a ringing endorsement thanks for sharing this great news.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

47% said they would vote leave in this poll. That really is a ringing endorsement thanks for sharing this great news.

Yes and it was 2% higher than those who wanted remain. I thought it was interesting as the have been several other posts on this thread stating that people were regretting voting leave. This poll suggests otherwise. It was also interesting that there was an overwhelming majority that did not want another referendum and 60% thought remainers were trying to derail the democratic vote.

I'm sorry you found it uninteresting.

 

[GT49er]

47% said they would vote leave in this poll. That really is a ringing endorsement thanks for sharing this great news.

Surely that is wrong. All we have been hearing from remain is a 2nd vote would give them victory

Yes, point proved!

 

[studio150]

Yes and it was 2% higher than those who wanted remain. I thought it was interesting as the have been several other posts on this thread stating that people were regretting voting leave. This poll suggests otherwise. It was also interesting that there was an overwhelming majority that did not want another referendum and 60% thought remainers were trying to derail the democratic vote.

I'm sorry you found it uninteresting.

Or you could look at the results as leave down 5% points against stay down 3% points which would indicate that more leavers are having doubts confirming the posts to which you refer.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Or you could look at the results as leave down 5% points against stay down 3% points which would indicate that more leavers are having doubts confirming the posts to which you refer.

Yes you could. It is an interesting article.

 

[ManOfSussex]

I've never bought a copy of The Guardian in my life. It does have a good website though, it's won an award and Arron Banks reads it and writes in it too. I happened to read this article though over the weekend and I just wondered if the author did his research on NSC........................It's uncanny.

Leavers are angry, for their lies will return to haunt them

The protracted negotiations to extricate Britain from the European Union are exposing the falsity of Farage and his cohorts

Nick Cohen

The only thing worse than sore losers are sore winners. They have the victory, the field is theirs, but still they scream bitter abuse at the defeated.

The millions who know that Brexit will shrink their world have every right to be angry. The young who voted to remain because they wanted to learn, work and love where they choose, without facing restrictions on which university they could study at and which husband or wife they could bring home, have every right to be furious too. As for EU immigrants in Britain and British immigrants in the EU, it is fair to imagine them directing an emotion more intense than anger at the 17 million people who took the cold-blooded decision to risk their future happiness.

Yet, instead of seeing the losers’ anger, we are witnessing a novel and graceless phenomenon: victors’ rage. Supporters of Brexit shout about “enemies of the people” and denounce “Remoaners” with all the venom of men and women who have lost rather than won the biggest political struggle of their lives. They demand their opponents pass loyalty tests, as if we were living in a dictatorship. They do not allow you to say the referendum result betrayed our country’s best interests. They instruct you to play the hypocrite and pretend to believe what you know to be untrue. Be warned. Refuse to go along with the political correctness of the right and you will feel “the people’s” wrath.

On its own, the Leave campaigners’ victory makes the rage on the right appear baffling. But the mystery does not end there. There is a faint but real possibility that a Greek or Italian eurozone crisis, or a second wave of refugees, will vindicate their desire to quit the union. Meanwhile, although the pound has fallen and real wages are shrinking, Remainers must admit events have disproved their apocalyptic forecasts of recessions and house-price crashes – for the time being at least.

Why in these circumstances are Leavers angry? What the hell do they have to be angry about? A part of the answer is that raging is all the poor dears can do. Across the west, the populist right is as much a countercultural movement as a political movement. Its supporters are closer to satirists than thinkers and doers with practical plans to change society. The right feasts on undoubted hypocrisies and evils in the liberal mainstream. It picks them apart and examines their ghoulish contradictions. Like its counterparts on the left, it then rapidly loses itself in the magic world of conspiracy theory. If you genuinely believe a sinister force has organised 97% of climate scientists to lie about global warming, or Brussels has bribed economists across the world to lie about the danger of Brexit, you are not just assuming mass mendacity at an astonishing level. You are also assuming “the establishment” is capable of the astonishing level of organisation required to persuade tens of thousands to lie.

Paradoxically, Leavers are the establishment’s greatest admirers. Unlike those of us who have seen Britain’s shambling state at work, they believe it is capable of anything. Naturally, they suspect “the establishment” is conspiring to overturn the referendum result. This is why their pious exclamations about respecting the will of “the people” never extend to granting “the people” the privilege of changing its mind. No matter how bad the condition of Britain becomes, they allowed us the one vote and that was that.

It is as if Nigel Farage, Boris Johnson and Michael Gove persuaded the British to abandon a familiar route ahead and try their short cut to national greatness. The landscape becomes menacing. The supposedly open road turns out to be tight and tortuous. But as soon as the passengers begin to mutter about going back, the furious demagogues of the right bellow that not only can they not turn the car round, they cannot even stop for a vote on whether they should turn the car round. To ask for a sensible reappraisal is to fall into the trap of an establishment that is plotting to deceive us.

Even if they will not allow us second thoughts, Britain’s Weimar culture of stab-in-the-back theories will poison the wells for years hence. Treason and fear of the accusation of treason fill the mental universe of the right.

You should not forget that the referendum campaign had two Leave campaigns, which hated each other as much as they hated their opponents. The official Vote Leave campaign wanted nothing to do with Nigel Farage and Arron Banks, who they regarded as racists. Farage dismissed the Tories at Vote Leave as cretins.

To outsiders, their hatreds looked like distinctions without differences. Although Daniel Hannan and other supposedly respectable Conservatives pretend they did not win by palming the race card from the bottom of the deck, it is a matter of record that Vote Leave began by promising a “positive” and “internationalist” vision and finished by aping Ukip and warning that 76 million Turks were about to land at Dover.

Those inside the toxic world of the right took notice of the frenzied accusations, however, and learned how easily treason charges can be directed inwards. It is said that Stalin killed his Bolshevik comrades because, after learning how to organise one revolution against the tsar, he feared they could organise another against him. Modern populists aren’t so different from old communists. They know there are two scenarios for Brexit. The first is a compromise to avoid the economy tumbling over a cliff. We already know Ukip and the Tory right will denounce as a sellout any transitional arrangement that involves Britain still obeying the European Court of Justice, still paying money to the EU and still accepting freedom of movement.

But, and this is as likely, suppose we go over the cliff. What will the right say to all those who lose their jobs and businesses? You can already guess it will blame the Germans and the French. We could have had a good deal, it will maintain as it pretends the world owes us a living, but wicked foreigners connived against us. The xenophobic fury will be cranked up so loud it will drown out an obvious question, which must haunt the Leavers even now: does not responsibility for a disaster lie with the men and women who have led us to disaster?

Why are the Leave campaigners so angry? Because they fear the demagogic rage and charlatan tricks they have used against others will one day be used against them.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...r-their-lies-will-haunt-them?CMP=share_btn_fb

 

[GT49er]

Nick Cohen



https://www.theguardian.com/comment...r-their-lies-will-haunt-them?CMP=share_btn_fb

Ooooh, the poor lamb! His mummy must have stirred his tea the wrong way round this morning! All that bile, malice and spoilt outrage do his cause no good at all - he probably doesn't even realise that it's people like him, who think people shouldn't have been allowed to vote leave, that all those who voted leave are thick and racist, and that the vote should be overturned so that the result comes out the way he wanted, who are the reason for anger among leavers.
A totally justified and rational anger, not the foot stamping of a spoilt little boy, like his sulk-soaked rant.

 

[ManOfSussex]

it's people like him, who think people shouldn't have been allowed to vote leave, that all those who voted leave are thick and racist, and that the vote should be overturned so that the result comes out the way he wanted, who are the reason for anger among leavers.

I don't read The Guardian, so I wouldn't know, but has Nick Cohen stated leave voters are thick and racist and shouldn't have been allowed to vote?

 

[studio150]

I've never bought a copy of The Guardian in my life. It does have a good website though, it's won an award and Arron Banks reads it and writes in it too. I happened to read this article though over the weekend and I just wondered if the author did his research on NSC........................It's uncanny.

Leavers are angry, for their lies will return to haunt them

The protracted negotiations to extricate Britain from the European Union are exposing the falsity of Farage and his cohorts

Nick Cohen



https://www.theguardian.com/comment...r-their-lies-will-haunt-them?CMP=share_btn_fb

Now Now you know that the only news outlets permitted are the Mail, Express and Russia Today.

You will be in trouble for reading and sharing a sensible and articulate article.