[Politics] Brexit

[The Clamp]

Slowly, slowly we progress towards the EU….

UK may shelve controversial Brexit protocol bill in show of goodwill to EU

Negotiators on both sides hopeful they may be able to enter intense ‘tunnel’ phase of talks next week

www.theguardian.com

 

[chickens]

I thought this article was interesting, as much for where it is as its content. If this is now openly accepted in Britain’s main right-wing broadsheet, then the times they are indeed a’changing.

12ft

 

[Baldseagull]

I thought this article was interesting, as much for where it is as its content. If this is now openly accepted in Britain’s main right-wing broadsheet, then the times they are indeed a’changing.

12ft

That is, I think, designed to kick the Tories up the arse into doing something that takes advantage of the "potential" of Brexit.
A new Centre Right party won't save Brexit, the centre never wanted it, it was only the right and left ends of the major parties that really wanted it.

 

[chickens]

That is, I think, designed to kick the Tories up the arse into doing something that takes advantage of the "potential" of Brexit.
A new Centre Right party won't save Brexit, the centre never wanted it, it was only the right and left ends of the major parties that really wanted it.

To me it sounded more fatalistic, describing the deal that the Conservative Party had negotiated as unsalvageable is pretty strong for the Telegraph.

It was also unusually frank in its assessment that the Conservatives were out of time to turn it around even if they had the ability or appetite to.

It feels like a significant step forward in terms of the right accepting the rather sober reality of Brexit.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Albania, Bosnia & Herzegovina, Montenegro, North Macedonia, Serbia had official candidate status before we left, Ukraine and Moldova have applied since we left while Turkey have applied but that appears to be at the bottom of the EU 'To Do' list.

If the non-Turkey 7 are admitted then that will give the EU a clean sweep of the Iron Curtain countries bar Belarus.

Worryingly for Russia, Georgia applied for EU membership in March 2022 but was denied candidate status in June 2022.

I was told back in 2016 that the EU would be gone in 5-10 years

But indeed, the EU becomes ever more powerful in the world, year on year.

Remember when we were the 2nd most influential country in that trading bloc, taking advantage of all the power we had to ensure Britain had the best deal ever and was economically stable and growing. Seems like a lifetime away from the staff shortages in NHS, Care, Hospitality, Logistics, various other industries, raging inflation, plummeting GDP, dying exports, no import controls, the Northern Ireland problem and the various other crises

 

[The Clamp]

I was told back in 2016 that the EU would be gone in 5-10 years

But indeed, the EU becomes ever more powerful in the world, year on year.

Remember when we were the 2nd most influential country in that trading bloc, taking advantage of all the power we had to ensure Britain had the best deal ever and was economically stable and growing. Seems like a lifetime away from the staff shortages in NHS, Care, Hospitality, Logistics, various other industries, raging inflation, plummeting GDP, dying exports, no import controls, the Northern Ireland problem and the various other crises

But but but Putin, Covid….


The current shit show is nought to do with Brexit. Oh no. No sireeeebob

 

[TWOCHOICEStom]

I've ignored this thread. But I want to just share how Brexit has made the last 18 months of my life an absolute nightmare.

Brief background. My wife is Swedish. We met in the UK in 2009. She lived and worked here for 4 years, has a national insurance number etc. We moved to Sweden in 2013. We decided to move back last year. The EU Settlement Scheme was also open to EU citizens living in the EU with qualifying British citizens (me). So we thought we'd do that instead of messing around with visas later down the line.

You essentially get issued a visa (travel permit) which enables to to travel to the UK and apply to the EUSS from there. So that first step goes through UKVI. I had to prove I was a qualifying British citizen and she'd get the visa.

After being told it would take 4-6 weeks. UKVI kept her passport for 6 months. No communication. Nothing. A telephone "support" line which you have to enter your credit card details to talk to a third party company who gives you zero information. I've spent £200 on phone calls. We'd planned to move in March. So we had cancelled our apartment contract, nursery, I quit my job. But we couldn't move. She couldn't even leave the country without her passport.

Then, after 2 months of living in our friends airbnb cottage in their back garden, letters to MPs, paying for solicitors, we got an email at 5 o'clock on a Friday afternoon...
VISA REFUSED.

The reason for the refusal was that I didn't demonstrate I'd lived/worked in Sweden clearly enough for them. Despite sending tax documents, our son's birth certificate and tons of other stuff. If they'd have f***ing CALLED ME I would have supplied them with any information they needed. But no. The only option we had was to appeal. We submitted the appeal in April and finally sat in front of a f***ing JUDGE at a tribunal in August. A judge. A bloody judge. Anyway she agreed that I had in fact lived and worked in Sweden (imagine that!) and granted the appeal.

It took 3 months for the Home office to acknowledge the appeal decision. We then had to go back to Stockholm to submit my wife's passport for a scan and the visa would be issued. A third party took the passport and sent it to Berlin to be scanned. We'd get it back within a week. Three weeks later they accidentally sent it to Bangalore. Where it was stuck for 2 weeks with the visa inside. DHL blamed the thid party. The third party told us to contact the Home office. It was a shit show.

So, we finally got the visa in the passport back in November and have now "moved" to the UK. We have now submitted her application to the EU Settlement Scheme and will have to wait and see what the verdict is and whether we have to move back to Sweden or not.

My wife has lived, worked and paid taxes in this country. Our son is British. She has a right to be here. But it could not have been more difficult at every step to get her here. And honestly, I often wonder whether it's worth it.

Our alternative should the EUSS application be refused is to move back to Sweden or find 5 grand for a spouse visa. Live in our friends gardens for however long that decision takes to make and put our entire lives on hold for another year.

So forgive me for being so blunt. But you can shove Brexit right up your arse.

 

[taz]

When in the EU average wages increased by a maximum of 2.9%,, UK wages increased by 5.7% 2021,,,6.4% 2022,, facing a recession and high inflation still in the EU with half the country still on minimum wage EU slave labour rates would have been a disaster, an oversubscribed cheap labour market needing massive universal credit support, + a huge increase in unemployment would have been the reward for staying in

 

[Hotchilidog]

I've ignored this thread. But I want to just share how Brexit has made the last 18 months of my life an absolute nightmare.

Brief background. My wife is Swedish. We met in the UK in 2009. She lived and worked here for 4 years, has a national insurance number etc. We moved to Sweden in 2013. We decided to move back last year. The EU Settlement Scheme was also open to EU citizens living in the EU with qualifying British citizens (me). So we thought we'd do that instead of messing around with visas later down the line.

You essentially get issued a visa (travel permit) which enables to to travel to the UK and apply to the EUSS from there. So that first step goes through UKVI. I had to prove I was a qualifying British citizen and she'd get the visa.

After being told it would take 4-6 weeks. UKVI kept her passport for 6 months. No communication. Nothing. A telephone "support" line which you have to enter your credit card details to talk to a third party company who gives you zero information. I've spent £200 on phone calls. We'd planned to move in March. So we had cancelled our apartment contract, nursery, I quit my job. But we couldn't move. She couldn't even leave the country without her passport.

Then, after 2 months of living in our friends airbnb cottage in their back garden, letters to MPs, paying for solicitors, we got an email at 5 o'clock on a Friday afternoon...
VISA REFUSED.

The reason for the refusal was that I didn't demonstrate I'd lived/worked in Sweden clearly enough for them. Despite sending tax documents, our son's birth certificate and tons of other stuff. If they'd have f***ing CALLED ME I would have supplied them with any information they needed. But no. The only option we had was to appeal. We submitted the appeal in April and finally sat in front of a f***ing JUDGE at a tribunal in August. A judge. A bloody judge. Anyway she agreed that I had in fact lived and worked in Sweden (imagine that!) and granted the appeal.

It took 3 months for the Home office to acknowledge the appeal decision. We then had to go back to Stockholm to submit my wife's passport for a scan and the visa would be issued. A third party took the passport and sent it to Berlin to be scanned. We'd get it back within a week. Three weeks later they accidentally sent it to Bangalore. Where it was stuck for 2 weeks with the visa inside. DHL blamed the thid party. The third party told us to contact the Home office. It was a shit show.

So, we finally got the visa in the passport back in November and have now "moved" to the UK. We have now submitted her application to the EU Settlement Scheme and will have to wait and see what the verdict is and whether we have to move back to Sweden or not.

My wife has lived, worked and paid taxes in this country. Our son is British. She has a right to be here. But it could not have been more difficult at every step to get her here. And honestly, I often wonder whether it's worth it.

Our alternative should the EUSS application be refused is to move back to Sweden or find 5 grand for a spouse visa. Live in our friends gardens for however long that decision takes to make and put our entire lives on hold for another year.

So forgive me for being so blunt. But you can shove Brexit right up your arse.

So sorry to hear that. It is an utter de-humanising sh*t show.

 

[Pavilionaire]

When in the EU average wages increased by a maximum of 2.9%,, UK wages increased by 5.7% 2021,,,6.4% 2022,, facing a recession and high inflation still in the EU with half the country still on minimum wage EU slave labour rates would have been a disaster, an oversubscribed cheap labour market needing massive universal credit support, + a huge increase in unemployment would have been the reward for staying in

Part of the reason wages in the UK have increased significantly is that our inflation is higher than in the EU. Another factor is that there is a massive shortage of labour generally in the UK, therefore the laws of supply and demand will strengthen the worker's hand and wages will go up.

If this country is doing so well how come we can't afford to pay public sector workers a decent wage, or even mend the roads?

 

[St Leonards Seagull]

Part of the reason wages in the UK have increased significantly is that our inflation is higher than in the EU. Another factor is that there is a massive shortage of labour generally in the UK, therefore the laws of supply and demand will strengthen the worker's hand and wages will go up.

If this country is doing so well how come we can't afford to pay public sector workers a decent wage, or even mend the roads?

What could have possibly contributed to a shortage of Labour?
Given what @TWOCHOICEStom has described, it seems the home office are pretty incompetent, if it’s that difficult for something that should be relatively straightforward. No wonder we are in the mess we are in.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I've ignored this thread. But I want to just share how Brexit has made the last 18 months of my life an absolute nightmare.

Brief background. My wife is Swedish. We met in the UK in 2009. She lived and worked here for 4 years, has a national insurance number etc. We moved to Sweden in 2013. We decided to move back last year. The EU Settlement Scheme was also open to EU citizens living in the EU with qualifying British citizens (me). So we thought we'd do that instead of messing around with visas later down the line.

You essentially get issued a visa (travel permit) which enables to to travel to the UK and apply to the EUSS from there. So that first step goes through UKVI. I had to prove I was a qualifying British citizen and she'd get the visa.

After being told it would take 4-6 weeks. UKVI kept her passport for 6 months. No communication. Nothing. A telephone "support" line which you have to enter your credit card details to talk to a third party company who gives you zero information. I've spent £200 on phone calls. We'd planned to move in March. So we had cancelled our apartment contract, nursery, I quit my job. But we couldn't move. She couldn't even leave the country without her passport.

Then, after 2 months of living in our friends airbnb cottage in their back garden, letters to MPs, paying for solicitors, we got an email at 5 o'clock on a Friday afternoon...
VISA REFUSED.

The reason for the refusal was that I didn't demonstrate I'd lived/worked in Sweden clearly enough for them. Despite sending tax documents, our son's birth certificate and tons of other stuff. If they'd have f***ing CALLED ME I would have supplied them with any information they needed. But no. The only option we had was to appeal. We submitted the appeal in April and finally sat in front of a f***ing JUDGE at a tribunal in August. A judge. A bloody judge. Anyway she agreed that I had in fact lived and worked in Sweden (imagine that!) and granted the appeal.

It took 3 months for the Home office to acknowledge the appeal decision. We then had to go back to Stockholm to submit my wife's passport for a scan and the visa would be issued. A third party took the passport and sent it to Berlin to be scanned. We'd get it back within a week. Three weeks later they accidentally sent it to Bangalore. Where it was stuck for 2 weeks with the visa inside. DHL blamed the thid party. The third party told us to contact the Home office. It was a shit show.

So, we finally got the visa in the passport back in November and have now "moved" to the UK. We have now submitted her application to the EU Settlement Scheme and will have to wait and see what the verdict is and whether we have to move back to Sweden or not.

My wife has lived, worked and paid taxes in this country. Our son is British. She has a right to be here. But it could not have been more difficult at every step to get her here. And honestly, I often wonder whether it's worth it.

Our alternative should the EUSS application be refused is to move back to Sweden or find 5 grand for a spouse visa. Live in our friends gardens for however long that decision takes to make and put our entire lives on hold for another year.

So forgive me for being so blunt. But you can shove Brexit right up your arse.

I know of people who’ve had issues with them . The HO is an utter embarrassment of a department at best, cruel at worst. It’s a common complaint there’s no meaningful way to hold them accountable to anything.

I wish you all the best.

 

[Simster]

I know of people who’ve had issues with them . The HO is an utter embarrassment of a department at best, cruel at worst. It’s a common complaint there’s no meaningful way to hold them accountable to anything.

I wish you all the best.

This is correct I'm afraid. The HO has been a byword for incompetence for decades. No surprise to hear this sorry tale at all. Sorry to hear about it @TWOCHOICEStom.

 

[WATFORD zero]

I see that British Car Battery manufacturer Britishvolt has now collapsed.

Britishvolt: UK battery start-up collapses into administration​

The UK currently only has one Chinese-owned battery plant next to the Nissan factory in Sunderland, while 35 plants are planned or already under construction in the European Union. Industry experts have said the UK will need several battery factories to support the future of UK car making as pure petrol and diesel engines are phased out over the next decade.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64303149

I really can't imagine why no global car manufacturers want to invest in the British Car Industry

And, in other news

UK suffering from ‘catastrophic’ impact of Brexit, says Asda boss
Britain is suffering from the “catastrophic” impact of Brexit and should consider a closer trading relationship with the EU, according to the Asda chair.Tory peer Lord Stuart Rose said trade between the UK and its neighbouring bloc was “not flowing smoothly” as he outlined why all sides should compromise to achieve closer ties.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-catastrophic-impact-uk-economy-b2263564.html

Brexit has created shortage of 330,000 workers in UK, say economists
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/ukne...A16qZf6?cvid=f4d3b19331c94e95b1feb87dece388f6

It really isn't 'political' in any shape or form and never was. It's just basic common sense and not getting stitched up by snake oil salesmen FFS

 

[Baldseagull]

To me it sounded more fatalistic, describing the deal that the Conservative Party had negotiated as unsalvageable is pretty strong for the Telegraph.

It was also unusually frank in its assessment that the Conservatives were out of time to turn it around even if they had the ability or appetite to.

It feels like a significant step forward in terms of the right accepting the rather sober reality of Brexit.

Maybe, my feeling is that it pushes the idea that all the promises could have been made real, if only the Tories hadn't f***ed it up. What would be better is if they were honest and said they were wrong to support Leave, as it was never going to work well.

 

[JetsetJimbo]

So sorry to hear that. It is an utter de-humanising sh*t show.

It is. But as someone with a South American sister-in-law, I can assure you that spuriously denying visas has been the Home Office's MO for a *very* long time now. They literally use it as a revenue-raising exercise. What's changed here is that more people are getting caught up in this bs process due to Brexit, but the bs process itself has been in place since the New Labour years.

 

[Eric the meek]

Some of the stories of individuals on here, and how the consequences of Brexit have impacted their lives, are gut-wrenching.

Not on the same scale, but still noteworthy, is the direct impact of Brexit on my sister-in-law. She works for a company in Blackpool, who make gadgets to combat the syphoning of fuel from your tank. Without going into detail, she said that the workload required to prep the documentation for products to export, is now three times the volume of what it used to be. That impacts time, effort, cost, throughput and profitability.

Extrapolate that across the whole country, and you can see how this key disadvantage of Brexit, restriction of trade, impacts growth, jobs and pay across the UK.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I've ignored this thread. But I want to just share how Brexit has made the last 18 months of my life an absolute nightmare.

Brief background. My wife is Swedish. We met in the UK in 2009. She lived and worked here for 4 years, has a national insurance number etc. We moved to Sweden in 2013. We decided to move back last year. The EU Settlement Scheme was also open to EU citizens living in the EU with qualifying British citizens (me). So we thought we'd do that instead of messing around with visas later down the line.

You essentially get issued a visa (travel permit) which enables to to travel to the UK and apply to the EUSS from there. So that first step goes through UKVI. I had to prove I was a qualifying British citizen and she'd get the visa.

After being told it would take 4-6 weeks. UKVI kept her passport for 6 months. No communication. Nothing. A telephone "support" line which you have to enter your credit card details to talk to a third party company who gives you zero information. I've spent £200 on phone calls. We'd planned to move in March. So we had cancelled our apartment contract, nursery, I quit my job. But we couldn't move. She couldn't even leave the country without her passport.

Then, after 2 months of living in our friends airbnb cottage in their back garden, letters to MPs, paying for solicitors, we got an email at 5 o'clock on a Friday afternoon...
VISA REFUSED.

The reason for the refusal was that I didn't demonstrate I'd lived/worked in Sweden clearly enough for them. Despite sending tax documents, our son's birth certificate and tons of other stuff. If they'd have f***ing CALLED ME I would have supplied them with any information they needed. But no. The only option we had was to appeal. We submitted the appeal in April and finally sat in front of a f***ing JUDGE at a tribunal in August. A judge. A bloody judge. Anyway she agreed that I had in fact lived and worked in Sweden (imagine that!) and granted the appeal.

It took 3 months for the Home office to acknowledge the appeal decision. We then had to go back to Stockholm to submit my wife's passport for a scan and the visa would be issued. A third party took the passport and sent it to Berlin to be scanned. We'd get it back within a week. Three weeks later they accidentally sent it to Bangalore. Where it was stuck for 2 weeks with the visa inside. DHL blamed the thid party. The third party told us to contact the Home office. It was a shit show.

So, we finally got the visa in the passport back in November and have now "moved" to the UK. We have now submitted her application to the EU Settlement Scheme and will have to wait and see what the verdict is and whether we have to move back to Sweden or not.

My wife has lived, worked and paid taxes in this country. Our son is British. She has a right to be here. But it could not have been more difficult at every step to get her here. And honestly, I often wonder whether it's worth it.

Our alternative should the EUSS application be refused is to move back to Sweden or find 5 grand for a spouse visa. Live in our friends gardens for however long that decision takes to make and put our entire lives on hold for another year.

So forgive me for being so blunt. But you can shove Brexit right up your arse.

This thought did cross my mind. I appreciate you have your reasons but from my experience Sweden seems a nice place, good standard of living and quality of life, language isn’t much of an issue and a country which isn’t falling to bits.

 

[Nobby]

I've ignored this thread. But I want to just share how Brexit has made the last 18 months of my life an absolute nightmare.

Brief background. My wife is Swedish. We met in the UK in 2009. She lived and worked here for 4 years, has a national insurance number etc. We moved to Sweden in 2013. We decided to move back last year. The EU Settlement Scheme was also open to EU citizens living in the EU with qualifying British citizens (me). So we thought we'd do that instead of messing around with visas later down the line.

You essentially get issued a visa (travel permit) which enables to to travel to the UK and apply to the EUSS from there. So that first step goes through UKVI. I had to prove I was a qualifying British citizen and she'd get the visa.

After being told it would take 4-6 weeks. UKVI kept her passport for 6 months. No communication. Nothing. A telephone "support" line which you have to enter your credit card details to talk to a third party company who gives you zero information. I've spent £200 on phone calls. We'd planned to move in March. So we had cancelled our apartment contract, nursery, I quit my job. But we couldn't move. She couldn't even leave the country without her passport.

Then, after 2 months of living in our friends airbnb cottage in their back garden, letters to MPs, paying for solicitors, we got an email at 5 o'clock on a Friday afternoon...
VISA REFUSED.

The reason for the refusal was that I didn't demonstrate I'd lived/worked in Sweden clearly enough for them. Despite sending tax documents, our son's birth certificate and tons of other stuff. If they'd have f***ing CALLED ME I would have supplied them with any information they needed. But no. The only option we had was to appeal. We submitted the appeal in April and finally sat in front of a f***ing JUDGE at a tribunal in August. A judge. A bloody judge. Anyway she agreed that I had in fact lived and worked in Sweden (imagine that!) and granted the appeal.

It took 3 months for the Home office to acknowledge the appeal decision. We then had to go back to Stockholm to submit my wife's passport for a scan and the visa would be issued. A third party took the passport and sent it to Berlin to be scanned. We'd get it back within a week. Three weeks later they accidentally sent it to Bangalore. Where it was stuck for 2 weeks with the visa inside. DHL blamed the thid party. The third party told us to contact the Home office. It was a shit show.

So, we finally got the visa in the passport back in November and have now "moved" to the UK. We have now submitted her application to the EU Settlement Scheme and will have to wait and see what the verdict is and whether we have to move back to Sweden or not.

My wife has lived, worked and paid taxes in this country. Our son is British. She has a right to be here. But it could not have been more difficult at every step to get her here. And honestly, I often wonder whether it's worth it.

Our alternative should the EUSS application be refused is to move back to Sweden or find 5 grand for a spouse visa. Live in our friends gardens for however long that decision takes to make and put our entire lives on hold for another year.

So forgive me for being so blunt. But you can shove Brexit right up your arse.

Absolutely dreadful
Our country, my country has been degraded beyond repair.
If I didn’t have kids and Grandkids here now I would have been off.
We are run by morons

 

[aolstudios]

Absolutely dreadful
Our country, my country has been degraded beyond repair.
If I didn’t have kids and Grandkids here now I would have been off.
We are run by morons

& thieves...