[Politics] Brexit

[Lincoln Imp]

Mercedes, BMW, and VW have all built factories in South Africa. Import tariffs and floating exchange rates apply here.

Absolutely, and you have missed out others, including Mexico where VW build Beetles. Manufacturers will build factories where a balance between logistics, labour costs, government support and onward trade agreements make it worthwhile. That's why Honda and Toyota and Nissan are all here, their decisions clinched by the UK's trading relationship with the European market. They wouldn't want to build factories in the UK to access the Australian or Ghanaian or North American markets, they already have those covered.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

But you are relentlessly negative and sceptical about ANY ministerial statement or news article that addresses trade deals with other nations.

Given that the UK represents a large market that buys far more stuff from other people than it sells to them I am surprised that every country in the world isn't queuing up to sign a trade deal (aka known as a market trader's licence) with the United Kingdom. Every day of the week flyers come through my door from companies that want to fix up trade deals with my household. A trade deal in itself means nothing at all - it's what's in the detail. (Cue 15 more links to Breibart and the Daily Express revealing that New Zealand or somewhere is anxious to get a deal with the UK.)

 

[Seagull58]

Given that the UK represents a large market that buys far more stuff from other people than it sells to them I am surprised that every country in the world isn't queuing up to sign a trade deal (aka known as a market trader's licence) with the United Kingdom. Every day of the week flyers come through my door from companies that want to fix up trade deals with my household. A trade deal in itself means nothing at all - it's what's in the detail. (Cue 15 more links to Breibart and the Daily Express revealing that New Zealand or somewhere is anxious to get a deal with the UK.)

Now you agree that there are a number of trade negotiations in the pipeline but they "mean nothing at all". Your total negativity is quite impressive in a strange way.

 

[beorhthelm]

Absolutely, and you have missed out others, including Mexico where VW build Beetles. Manufacturers will build factories where a balance between logistics, labour costs, government support and onward trade agreements make it worthwhile. That's why Honda and Toyota and Nissan are all here, their decisions clinched by the UK's trading relationship with the European market. They wouldn't want to build factories in the UK to access the Australian or Ghanaian or North American markets, they already have those covered.

Nissan and Honda export some models to Japan. i recall BMW ships some models from SA back to Europe. VW brought up Skoda long before it was in the EU and Ford moved some manufacturing out of EU to Turkey, for that product to be imported back. as you say they will balance many aspects, not automatically build and sell in the same market.

 

[marshy68]

...it was an election manifesto pledge of the party that won an outright majority...

You just don't like democracy, do you?

I like democracy, didn't vote for the tories didn't vote to leave nowt I can do about it. I will always believe that decisions of this magnitude shouldn't be left to the electorate.

 

[marshy68]

Horrors. You mean that Democracy actually means that the people in power have to listen to those not in power? We can't be having that. Why not abolish the whole voting every 4 years and just have a Government that "knows best" doesn't get voted onto power or offfice and does what it wants without being held to account by anyone because the 'pople' can't vote them out.

Oh hold on a sec, thats the EU which this DEMOCRACY just kicked out.

No, your problem is that you 'lost' and others who had an opposing view, won.

Not at all. I voted against the current govt in the general election and I voted to remain. I think the country has made a bad decision and its not like it was a landslide to leave and I don't here any of the remainers regretting their decision. But as you say its democracy and we have to get on with it doesn't mean I agree with it or like it. Certainly doesn't mean I don't like democracy.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Now you agree that there are a number of trade negotiations in the pipeline but they "mean nothing at all". Your total negativity is quite impressive in a strange way.

A. I have never said there aren't trade negotiations in the pipeline (it would be astonishing if there weren't)
B. I did not say that they 'mean nothing at all'.

Apart from that, sound post.

PS What I DID suggest is that a trade deal is only as good as its details. Can you outline what part of this you disagree with?

 

[Two Professors]

Honestly didn't think this thread would still be going after I got back from holiday.Remoaners still at it with their negativity-time to get over it,don't put a cloud over us happy Brexiters.5-ways,you should have stayed in La Rochelle-I'm sure you'd be much happier there and Flybe do loads of flights now!Lincoln Imp needs to go and live like a hermit,or be given the Samaritans number, before he implodes.The new footy season is almost upon us and promotion beckons.All else is totally meaningless and should be relegated to the conference

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Nissan and Honda export some models to Japan. i recall BMW ships some models from SA back to Europe. VW brought up Skoda long before it was in the EU and Ford moved some manufacturing out of EU to Turkey, for that product to be imported back. as you say they will balance many aspects, not automatically build and sell in the same market.

I agree with what you say. Certainly though, Brexit has made vehicle-manufacturing FDI into the UK less likely. (One factor I didn't mention was low politics - Nissan has been under great French government pressure to divert future manufacturing from Sunderland to just outside Paris and that will be much harder to fight off now, as you may agree.) One bright spot is that BMW might use its existing Oxford plant for sending products to countries with which the UK has negotiated trade deals.

 

[Baldseagull]

Honestly didn't think this thread would still be going after I got back from holiday.Remoaners still at it with their negativity-time to get over it,don't put a cloud over us happy Brexiters.5-ways,you should have stayed in La Rochelle-I'm sure you'd be much happier there and Flybe do loads of flights now!Lincoln Imp needs to go and live like a hermit,or be given the Samaritans number, before he implodes.The new footy season is almost upon us and promotion beckons.All else is totally meaningless and should be relegated to the conference

The cloud is on it's way, and you put it there, not me.

 

[pastafarian]

(One factor I didn't mention was low politics - Nissan has been under great French government pressure to divert future manufacturing from Sunderland to just outside Paris and that will be much harder to fight off now, as you may agree.)

This is last years news and has already been resolved.
Nissan, The French Government and Renault had talks, and The French governments voting rights have been reduced in Renault( part stakeholder in Nissan) and the French gov have been prevented from interfering in Nissan decisions. In return Nissan wont look for extra voting rights in Renault

There is now no pressure to move Nissan production.

Project fear is still strong in you.

 

[GT49er]

2025 was a joke, but it is as good a guess as any.

May said Article 50 will be a UK-wide thing and will need consent from Scotland. She knows that this gives the nationalists the ammo they need to break away. At the very least Scotland will be afforded some protections to stay within the EU.

Sorry, can you tell us all when Scotland was given the right to veto decisions of the UK government?

 

[5ways]

Sorry, can you tell us all when Scotland was given the right to veto decisions of the UK government?

She clarified earlier that Wales and Scotland don't hold a veto over it. But, in a political sense, I think they do. I think there will be some sort of serious federalism that gives Scotland flexibility and allows Westminster to trigger article 50.

 

[Seagull58]

A. I have never said there aren't trade negotiations in the pipeline (it would be astonishing if there weren't)
B. I did not say that they 'mean nothing at all'.

Apart from that, sound post.

PS What I DID suggest is that a trade deal is only as good as its details. Can you outline what part of this you disagree with?

Here are your exact words: -
A trade deal in itself means nothing at all - it's what's in the detail.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

Here are your exact words: -
A trade deal in itself means nothing at all - it's what's in the detail.

You're either being asinine or attempting a wind-up. As you have the good sense to support the Albion I will assume it's the latter.

 

[yxee]

I like democracy, didn't vote for the tories didn't vote to leave nowt I can do about it. I will always believe that decisions of this magnitude shouldn't be left to the electorate.

I personally believe the more important the decision, the more need for democracy.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

This is last years news and has already been resolved.
Nissan, The French Government and Renault had talks, and The French governments voting rights have been reduced in Renault( part stakeholder in Nissan) and the French gov have been prevented from interfering in Nissan decisions. In return Nissan wont look for extra voting rights in Renault

There is now no pressure to move Nissan production.

Project fear is still strong in you.

Not Project Fear at all - I didn't know this agreement had been made, so thanks for that. You may accept that a loss of access to the single market makes FDI less attractive in general though - to Nissan and every other company seeking a bridgehead.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I personally believe the more important the decision, the more need for democracy.

Here is a really important decision. Hypothetical. You are really ill, and a consultant advocates complex intervention, with several options, some of which have higher chances of success but the drugs and or surgery are risky. So sys the consultant. Do you leave it to the consultant to decide? Well, you can get a second opinion (from another consultant). And you can go on the web, or read a medical text book. And then you can decide. But its between you and the consultant(s). I certainly wouldn't ask friends and family to vote on it. Let alone strangers, Palace fans, etc. Democracy (plebiscite) sounds like a good idea, but I prefer to trust the experts. If the experts prove to be cock up artists then there are always other experts. Like [MENTION=20219]marshy68[/MENTION], I often don't get what I vote for but I would rather see people elected to make decisions (or trained as doctors to do so) than have to engage in a plebiscite/referendum.

 

[Hampster Gull]

If your going to continue to indulge in lazy, derogatory, stereotyping you should also include the 'small minded' Welsh (52.5% leave vote).

The leave campaign was all about lazy, derogatory and stereotyping statements happy to add the welsh leavers too

 

[Hampster Gull]

Sorry, can you tell us all when Scotland was given the right to veto decisions of the UK government?

No veto. They can just vote to leave. If we think we subsidise the scots now, wait until we really have to persuade them to stay